#34. Dave Chappelle, the Mandalorian, and IKEA
Listen to this episode ↗on Substack, where the show lives now
Nobody wanted to review It Chapter Two, so the crew pivots to Netflix stand-up and Dave Chappelle's Sticks and Stones. Sonny finds it very funny while arguing it isn't a well-built set — it lacks the architecture of Chappelle's first Netflix hour, which looped around the four times he met O.J. Simpson — and he takes apart the "designed to trigger the libs" critique as lazier than the special it condemns, since what Chappelle is actually doing with the alphabet-people bit, the F-word-versus-N-word riff, and Jussie Smollett is telling a story about intersectionality; his aside that the opening minutes of Delirious, on gays and AIDS, are "just punching up all the way" is the funniest line of the segment. JVL calls it good but lesser Chappelle with two genuinely great jokes, the pitch-black Anthony Bourdain opener and the gun-registration bit whose real punchline (that armed black Americans are the only way to get white people to ban guns) gets drowned out by an audience clapping for what they assume is race war; he also floats a guild theory, that comics keep doing offensive material the way a rights-holder must keep enforcing a claim or lose it — an analogy he gets wrong as copyright and a listener later corrects to trademark. Vic gives it an A-plus, admiring the craft more than any particular joke: the deliberate walk-back across the stage that buys pacing, the cigarette as prop, the Q&A epilogue about Daphne the transgender fan, and the way Chappelle handles a ringing cell phone. Favorites get named — Sonny for Gilbert Gottfried, Norm Macdonald, Bill Burr and, unironically, Carrot Top; JVL for Robin Williams at the Met in 1986, which he suspects working comics despise; Vic for Rodney Dangerfield and a Flip Wilson ugly-baby joke on Carson he considers a masterclass. Before that, JVL delivers a sustained tirade against IKEA, where he'd rather throw six-dollar shelves in the trash than re-enter "that hellscape" with its 24 checkout lanes and two cashiers, and asks Alexa to move IKEA up the Bezos kill list; Sonny has an existential crisis over not knowing who Caroline Calloway is; and Vic reports his triglycerides came back at 109 after six months of running, intermittent fasting and two pumps of fish oil in the mouth every morning.
From the show notes
#cdata-section -------------- In this latest episode sponsored by Calm and NetSuite, we discuss Dave Chappelle's Sticks & Stones and th...
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00And everybody was furious, especially in Hollywood. It's all over everybody's Twitter feed and Instagram page, "Justice for Juicy" and all this sh*t. The whole country was up in arms, was talking about it all the time on the news. And for some reason, African Americans, we were, like, oddly quiet. We were so quiet about this sh*t that the gay community started accusing African American community of being homophobic for not supporting him. What they didn't understand is that we were supporting him with our silence. Because we understood that this sh*t was clearly lying.
Vic00:00:56Hello and welcome to another edition of the Sub-Beacon, sponsored by NetSuite and Calm, the number one app for sleep, meditation, and relaxation. I'm Victor Matus, along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Look at our podcast and search for Sub-Beacon. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL.
JVL00:01:26People love Ikea. Ikea is one of these brands that people talk about with fondness and, you know, well, it's pretty good value furniture and they innovated flat pack shipping. I do not know of any other retail experience that people actually hate more than Ikea, though. They like the idea of Ikea, but going to an Ikea...
Sonny00:01:54I think this is a very gendered statement. I think women are more into Ikea than men, if I had to guess.
JVL00:02:02I cannot believe that there's any human being on the planet who does not view the prospect of going to an Ikea as...
Sonny00:02:10This is like the good boys book smart dichotomy that we were discussing yesterday, that maybe there are just things we cannot understand. Because I know a fair number of women, at least in the ones, and they are all psyched to go to Ikea.
Vic00:02:26Two things for you. Swedish meatballs and ginger snaps. Okay, I'll drive down there just for that. That works for me.
Sonny00:02:35When I was a kid, I do remember being like, oh yeah, those Swedish meatballs are kind of sweet.
Vic00:02:41Amazing. And you feel like you can have about a hundred.
Sonny00:02:44Yeah, they're the Swedish equivalent of Chick-fil-A nuggets.
Vic00:02:48Unless you have a germ phobia, you think about all the people who are just swarming around there. And some people with the toothpicks, maybe somebody accidentally brushed it with their finger. I mean... You know, the probability...
Sonny00:02:58So you gotta buy the Swedish meatballs.
Vic00:02:59No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They always had free samples.
Sonny00:03:02Vic is talking about, would you go and eat like 10 of the free samples?
Vic00:03:05Yes, yes.
Sonny00:03:06Because that's basically a meal.
Vic00:03:08Yeah, you're done.
JVL00:03:09Yeah, you don't want to spend the $2.25 on the Swedish meatballs. On the Glurfing, the Glurfing balls. With the lingonberry sauce.
Vic00:03:18No, I... So wait, what brings up... Did you go to Ikea?
JVL00:03:22We went to Ikea. We purchased, I don't know, 1,300 pounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of MDF furniture. We brought it home. And there was some stuff that we got that the Ikea consultant told us to get, which in fact is not what we wanted. Like, you know, the modular loft bed system for a favorite. And where we... I mean, but the point is, there are like, you know, you could choose whether you want drawers or shelves. So we bought a bunch of this shit that the Ikea consultant said we should get. And we got it home. And there's a bunch of things that we should not have bought because they weren't what we wanted. And I'm going to throw them away. Well, why don't you just take them back to the store? No.
Sonny00:04:07Just so you refuse on general. You're just going to put them in the trash.
JVL00:04:10I hate going there so much that these boxes, I'm literally... Because, you know, the shelving is $6 each or something.
Vic00:04:17This is the one by just down the road from you.
JVL00:04:19Yeah. So we've got like six of these shelves that are... I don't know if they're $6 each or $9 each or something. But whatever it is, it's not enough money. You need to make it worthwhile to me to go back into that hellscape. Is it the layout of the store that you find frustrating?
Sonny00:04:33It's everything. Is it the people?
JVL00:04:35It's the layout of the store, the fact that when I got to the checkout, there were... They had 24 checkout lanes, two of which were open. Yeah, that's all. There were 50 people online.
Sonny00:04:49I counted. 50. I'm sorry, were you on the internet? Were you all in the checkout lane on the internet together? Because otherwise you were in a line. You weren't standing on a line. They got lines on there on the ground, Sonny. Because some Swedish McKinsey guy was like,
JVL00:05:05if we have fewer people staffing the checkout lines, well, people have already committed to coming through Ikea for four hours. They're not going to abandon at the point of sale. We could save $13.24 by having fewer people.
Sonny00:05:22Yeah, but the prep... Oh, my God. You're making a mistake. I'm making a mistake here because the real miracle of globalization is that that guy just sounds like another New Jersey finance bro. He doesn't sound like the Swedish chef.
Vic00:05:36No, it's like we get Ikea, but we just, you know, you order online. We do not go to it because I can imagine that would be a real pain.
JVL00:05:44You know, so Ikea does not want you shopping online. Really?
Vic00:05:47I find this very, very interesting. Is that right? They want you in the store.
JVL00:05:49They want you in the store. And their online presence is so bad that it has... It has to be on purpose. Yeah. No, it's... It's unpleasant? Wow.
Sonny00:06:00I read somewhere they don't like to have things shipped. They want you to come to the store and pick them up. Yes. And I don't know if it's a logistical challenge or they just want you in the store. I assume it's probably a bit of both.
JVL00:06:13So if Alexa is listening to this, which I assume she is, I would like it if Lord Bezos were to kill Ikea. I assume he's got that on his list, his kill list. Ikea has to be there somewhere. Like around like number 132 or something. But if we could move that up, maybe right behind book publishing or grocery stores. I'd like to move into the top quartile of the Bezos kill list.
Sonny00:06:41You want the eye of Bezos on Ikea. I do. As opposed to just kind of in the background.
JVL00:06:47Yes. Right. No? Would you not agree that this would be a net good for society?
Vic00:06:52Well, the meatballs.
Sonny00:06:53I don't... This is... They're really good. I feel like this is... This is just getting... Part of getting older. But I have grown less antagonistic toward Ikea the older I've gotten. I don't know if it's just because I've mellowed in my old age or what. But I have gotten to the point where I no longer dread going to Ikea. And I used to just like... I've gone to Ikea for the last time.
Vic00:07:22Fair. For the last time. I mean, look, I physically... I just won't do it again. I physically have not been to an Ikea. I don't know. Maybe 15, 20 years or something. Really? Yeah. Well, when you're a doctor's son. You don't have to shop at Ikea past age 23. We go through Ballard Design. Just kidding. Design within reach. What's the other one? It's ridiculous. Oh, go ahead.
Sonny00:07:43When I was part of the favela, the bookshelf favela, if you guys remember, was from Ikea. Actually, two separate parts of it were from Ikea. There was a Lexvic. A bookshelf. And a Grundy. And also. Kipfer.
Vic00:07:59A Maum. The Kipfer.
Sonny00:08:00Also, before, at least I'm pretty sure it was a Lexvic bookshelf. I know it was a Lexvic CD rack, but I didn't use them for CDs. I put DVDs and Blu-rays in them and stacked them vertically, which was, it was actually extremely handy because it was like kind of small and modular and you could put them, you could put, you could like bend them around the room, you know. But then they stopped making those in like 2006 or seven or something like that. And I remember when our friend Matt moved out of his. One of his apartments, he was like, I gotta, I gotta get rid of these. I was like, I will take all of your Lexvics. I will take all of your Lexvics. And so the Favela grew. Grew a bit more that day.
JVL00:08:35Well, they replaced them with the Kittikvurger.
Sonny00:08:37Kittikvurger.
Vic00:08:39The Mixelplix. They replaced it with Mixelplix.
JVL00:08:42You know, our, our buddy. Yes. Tom Lassie, who's from Denmark. Yeah, of course. Assures me that. I thought he was from Sweden. Finland. I thought he was from Sweden. I don't think so. I think it's Sweden. Assures me that all of these names of Ikea products are. Actual town. They're not just made up words. Oh, yeah. I had assumed that they were like, you know, how car names. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the Nissan Versa. Yeah, yeah. Just like bizarre, made up. It's like Hulu. Like, they aren't real words. I think Hulu is a real word. That's okay. Hula. Huli. Yeah, very good. But he says that they are real Swedish. Like, I don't remember. I sort of blacked out. The controversy was.
Vic00:09:19The controversy with the Ikea was that when it turned out, they found out that during the 80s, I think a lot of the labor. Was East German sort of like slave labor or something like that. You know, the story. Oh, look into it. Look and go to the Internet. Just type in East German.
JVL00:09:34Ikea was built on the back of commie prison.
Vic00:09:36I believe I look into it. I'm not. There's a story there. Sonny, what's going on?
Sonny00:09:41Speaking of getting older, there was a story today. So we're taping this Wednesday morning. Just pull back the curtain. There was a story that I guess broke last night at one of the vulture sites. I think it's the cut. About a woman named Caroline Calloway. Yes! I was reading that this morning. Hold on. And I saw the story. And I was like, oh, everybody in my feed had been talking about this story like a week ago. Like people thought it was going to drop last week and instead it dropped this week. And they were real excited for it. And I saw people sharing excerpts of them. They were like, oh, my God. Can you believe how terrible Caroline was? Blah, blah. And I'm looking at this story. And all I can think is I have no idea who this person is. And I have no idea. Why she is important. And I have no idea why any of you care about her. And it's the first time I've ever felt legitimately out of touch with the culture. Like there are times when I like am not familiar with a musician, but I know they exist. You know, or there's like a style of music that I don't like. But it's like, okay, it's there, whatever. EDM, the kids can do the Molly and dance to it. I don't care. But like this is the first time I've ever been totally flummoxed by a story. And it's different from like, you know, sometimes you get one of those big long New Yorker pieces about somebody you've never heard of. And you're like, okay, this is interesting. But that's different than this. This is like people were waiting for this person to get their comeuppance. And I am totally bereft. I'm like, I'm out to sea.
Vic00:11:11I don't even know what you're talking about.
Sonny00:11:14Well, I expect that from you. You're old. I'm in the Wilfred Brimley category. Now I'm old.
JVL00:11:18That's like the first, this is the first time I'm actually old. Let me give you a glimpse into your future. You are five years out for there being a halftime act at the Super Bowl
Sonny00:11:27whom you have never heard of.
JVL00:11:29And I don't mean like you're not familiar with their genre, but they come on and you're like, a black eyed pea is a band? What? That's coming.
Sonny00:11:37I would assume, well, it depends on if they keep doing the like, what will be really bad is if they just keep doing the nostalgia.
JVL00:11:44They flip. They go one nostalgia, one semi-current.
Sonny00:11:48Sometimes they combine and it's crazy. But if they keep doing nostalgia hits and they get to the nostalgia ones and I'm like, who is this? I have no idea. Because this person was famous 15 years ago.
Vic00:11:59If you start listening to like classic rock and you don't know the bands on the classic rock station then that's already bad. It's way out there. So you're not going to tell me what this is about? No, I don't even need to know about it. Instagram.
Sonny00:12:10It's about Instagram. JVL, you read the story. I did not even read the story because I was so distraught. You were cuddled in the fetal position contemplating your own mortality. I was like, why am I going to die? Why is that going to happen to me? I didn't realize until this moment Vic, you will love this piece.
JVL00:12:29I am telling you, you will love it.
Sonny00:12:31It's about some Instagram influencer and how she was a scam artist or something. Yes to all of it.
JVL00:12:38It has been a scam artist since college and it's written by a former friend. So it's like Betrayal plus Instagram plus Fyre Festival.
Vic00:12:48Oh, that does sound like someone's alley. It's 100%.
JVL00:12:53And a New Yorker?
Sonny00:12:55No, sorry.
Vic00:12:56The Cut. Oh, The Cut. Right, right. I don't even remember what you said. New York Magazine's
Sonny00:13:00The Cut. I don't even remember what you said. I actually subscribed to New York Magazine the other day which I've been kind of putting off for a while. It's one of the few websites I go to that I routinely hit the paywall on. And I figure at that point, you know, I might as well throw down.
JVL00:13:15Yeah, I did that too. I have a bunch of sites like that but as somebody who cares a lot about the UX with digital media, there are a whole host of sites who I will not name who I have tried to give my money to but their subscription experience is so miserable that it just doesn't work and I stopped. I just stopped trying to give them my money. I was like, you know what? Fine. If the people up at the Condé Nast really wanted me to subscribe to Wired then they would be able to process
Sonny00:13:48my credit card. And Wired in particular should be. You would think of all things.
JVL00:13:52But you know what though? They're totally fine. It's all, Condé Nast controls everything. It's the sweetest chef. We spend $3,000 on you.
Vic00:14:02Bork, bork, bork. You know that book that I just read, the Ruth Reichel. Read in. Read in and review. Read it. I haven't even reviewed it. The Ruth Reichel book, Save Me the Plums, talks about how gourmet, you know, as part of the Condé Nast empire and then when the whole online thing happened they, Cy Neu has decided no, we're going to take all of your recipes since 1943 or 1940 whatever. Epicurious. Put it on Epicurious up there. It's all up there for free and it was gone. They had like nothing left. The internet
JVL00:14:33wants to be free, man. That's it. It's interesting.
Sonny00:14:37It is interesting how far that has snapped back in the other direction now with all of these streaming services debuting at the same time each one being like, you give us $5, you give us $7 or $8, $12 and like, I just want somebody to bundle them all together. That's all I want.
Vic00:14:53That's right. For $500 a month. Just bundle them all
JVL00:14:57and put them on a cable. So what you're saying is you'd like to spend say $130 a month and just get 500 channels of all the things you want to watch.
Sonny00:15:03Yes, that's right. Because, you know, each of those things only has like one or two shows on them that I want to watch. So, you know, if I can get them all in one place, I don't have to keep, you know, thinking about what I'm subscribing to. It'd be much easier on me, the consumer. Yeah. I hate the unbundlers. This is all their fault. This is all their fault. I hate them. I wish they were dead. That's right. Victorino, I have a question for you. Shoot. Because we tried to
JVL00:15:25talk about it last week and then you punted and said, no, let's do it next week. The Mandalorian. Oh, yeah, right.
Vic00:15:31Joe. Yeah. Okay. First question. Speaking of which, paying for channels, that's going to be on where? A Disney channel? Disney+. Disney+. Hasbro+. Does Disney Plus, does that exist now? No. Okay. Disney Plus debuts in November. And then The Mandalorian.
Sonny00:15:46The Mandalorian. That is the first week show. And then access to
Vic00:15:50every Disney movie you want. Slash Star Wars, Marvel, maybe. Maybe.
JVL00:15:55Unclear. Unclear. Unclear. They include everybody. This is Disney has not told us
Vic00:15:59exactly what's inside. How much per month?
JVL00:16:02What are they? $6.99? Oh. I think it was $7.99 or something like that. But they also have $7.99, but there's an upgraded version that comes with both Hulu and ESPN Plus for the same price as Netflix. Yeah. It's like $13 a month or something. I buy Netflix.
Vic00:16:15I love... Well, I mean, there's some things I like on Netflix, but there's a lot of stuff that's just... I loved the trailer for The Mandalorian. And in particular, you know what I loved about most?
Sonny00:16:27Werner Herzog. Oh, yeah.
Vic00:16:29He's in there. That's great. IG-11. IG-88? It's not 88.
JVL00:16:35It's 11. I looked into it. Remember... Spinning around, shooting in different directions. Yes, because you wondered
Vic00:16:39when you saw the...
Sonny00:16:41The one who looks like Scud, the disposable assassin. Remember Scud? No. That was a 90s comic. Never mind.
Vic00:16:49When you had the action figure for IG-88 after Empire Strikes Back came out for the Bounty Hunters, you always wondered, like, how good is that robot because he's a stick. He didn't look very robust. He didn't look robust at all. Bosk, I can see. He's a lizard, you know? I mean, Dengar, bless so, because he's obviously with that many bandages, he can't be that good of a bounty hunter. And then there were a couple others that you had to send out for for proof of purchase like, I think, Boba Fett. Zuckers. Boba Fett, of course, the original, and if you really were lucky, the rocket that came out.
JVL00:17:20That was not glued in yet. That's correct.
Vic00:17:22So, watching the Mandalorian trailer, and you see the Mandalorian, and then you see IG, as it turns out to be, Eleven, and who is voiced by somebody famous and I cannot remember right now who it is, but in any event, you see him in full action. He's like, ah, that's how he works, where he shoots everywhere and just like sort of this little revolving totem of death. Remember, there was a series of IG, the intergalactic droids, and they killed
JVL00:17:52their makers after they were designed. Tell me more. Nope, that was it. Why is the Mandalorian...
Vic00:17:56And then they went free, and then they went free. They killed like, we're going to design like the intergalactic bank. I heard this. I didn't read this anywhere. Somebody told me this, but the intergalactic bank, they created these IG robots, and then as soon as they made them, like there were like six or seven of them, they're like, we're free. They killed everybody, and then they just left. Interesting. Yeah. Assassin droids. That's probably
JVL00:18:16I just heard that somewhere. The Mandalorian? Yeah. He is wearing Boba Fett's actual armor or just armor that looks like Boba Fett's? Is there a Wookiee interest? Does he have the Wookiee pelts?
Sonny00:18:26Well, man, Boba Fett is a Mandalorian, right? Isn't that... What does that even mean? Mandalorian is like a race. It's like an
Vic00:18:36Alderaanian or... I thought they all came from Camino Real or that place. Weren't they all manufactured as clones?
Sonny00:18:42Well, Jango Fett was cloned many, many times. And his son is Boba? His son is Boba, but they are of the I'm pretty sure they are of the Mandalorian race, I think I don't know. Interesting. Again, we're doing a lot of half-assed research free...
Vic00:19:00But it looks great. It looks great. It looks serious. It looks... I loved it. JVL. You are
JVL00:19:06more excited or lesser excited for this versus The Rise of
Vic00:19:12Skywalkers. Easily more. Easily more. Easily more. Depending on what they do with The Rise of Skywalkers, I was so disappointed, obviously, as many people were about the last movie. So, I mean, if J.J. Abrams can rescue it, then okay, great. If they can do... It looks better,
Sonny00:19:26doesn't it? It's like there are knives out for the next one. Get it? Because Rian Johnson has that movie, Knives Out.
Vic00:19:34Oh! You know, I thought... Is that the Who Done It? That's the Clue movie? The Clue movie? Yeah. Okay. I think this looks better. The Mandalorian trailer? Visually. Yeah.
JVL00:19:45Visually, it looks like a pretty real life, like an actual, like what the Star Wars... A lived-in Star Wars universe. Yeah, but it's could be. Versus a cinematic Star Wars universe where everything is sort of candy-colored. Even the dark stuff is still dark. It's visually kind of shiny and big. Sonny, what do you
Sonny00:20:04think? Well, I mean, it looks... It reminds me of the story movies. The trailer for this reminds me of the trailers for Rogue One and Solo. Basically, it looks like a story that is separate from the rest of the universe. I mean, even down to the guy unlatching his blaster belt, which was very much a shot. I mean, it's like a classic western shot. I mean, the whole thing reads like a western, like a spaghetti western set in... It's basically spaghetti Star Wars. But even like that, again, that unlatching the blaster belt, that was totally a shot in the Solo trailer, I'm pretty sure. So it kind of reminds me of that, which is good and bad. It could be really good, or it could be kind of weird and soulless, and I don't know. The villain could
Vic00:20:59turn out to be a young child leading a rebellion. You don't know. I mean, I would
Sonny00:21:03say 100%.
Vic00:21:05She used to work at a casino.
Sonny00:21:08100%, I'm more excited for this than Rise of the Skywalker. And my understanding
Vic00:21:13is it takes place after Return of the Jedi?
Sonny00:21:16That's what I... Yeah, between... Supposedly, it's going to tell the story of the Rise of the First Order, or at least we'll touch on that. I don't know if it's like that as the main plot, but
Vic00:21:25that works for me.
Sonny00:21:28So I have... Hopefully we get some Hux.
Vic00:21:31I need some Admiral Hux. So we're going to get to that in the correction later on, I think. Thank you. I got my lab results this morning for myself. As you know, I've been trying to improve my numbers, my health numbers, over the last six months. Six months. So I have the good news, bad news. The good news is the triglyceride numbers, right? Which were completely off the chart. And when I mean off the charts, I mean like it broke the machine off the charts, right? So it should be smoking. They put your blood sample into the machine and all the starts. The whole thing, no. Yeah, yeah. It turned it into like a Theranos inside. It turned it into an Edison. It just broke it up inside. Lots of broken glass in there. Lots of broken glass. So I, you know, between 0 and 149 is good for triglycerides and mine was way... I don't even want to tell you what it is because it baffles the mind. Come on, give me your... Sonny will bleep it. Yeah, I'm not sharing personal... You gotta bleep that because it's personal information. Medical information. I didn't think that was possible. It was practically gravy. Like the amount of fat flowing in my blood was like, you know, the fake Heinz gravy that you would sometimes have to buy in the jar. It was... That was my blood. It came out and oozed. With real lumps. Yeah, with real lumps. With real lumps. It oozed out. Wow. So, yeah. And I didn't want it to alarm you because I was barely alive, it turns out, for all that time. So the results came back. Wow. The new results. 109. Wow. Wow. Which is probably the lowest number I've had. Are you sure? You don't have to
Sonny00:22:57bleep that number. Are you sure they didn't just
Vic00:22:59like spill some gravy or something?
Sonny00:23:01Like the Seinfeld episode where
Vic00:23:03they get the yogurt. The Junior Mints. No, no, no. They get the yogurt and the blood sample and they're like, you're the
Sonny00:23:09unhealthiest person ever. And he's like, I've been eating this fat-free yogurt the whole time. That's right.
Vic00:23:14It's possible. It's possible. But the new number... That was a big number. Is it all because of your fasting? So, combination, I think. Intermittent fasting and running more. Okay.
Sonny00:23:25Wait, are you telling me that diet and
Vic00:23:27exercise... I know because this is the Sonny Bunch thing. Are you telling me that diet and exercise... And I questioned you about it, Sonny, and I thought I wasn't
Sonny00:23:33convinced. Has reduced... Has made you a healthier person?
Vic00:23:35You told me this last time and I'm like, I don't know if that really works, diet and exercise. But, I mean, like yesterday I ran a little more than five miles. And so, I'm trying to do it like three times, four times a week plus the lifting and the intermittent fasting. So, it got down to... That's probably the lowest I've had since I was like captain of the tennis team in high school. I mean, 109 that's... So much so, the doctor added a note online and she just said, wow!
Sonny00:23:59With exclamation points. Oh, wait, wait. So, you were standing in a line and the doctor said to you, wow! With lots of exclamation points after it. Is that... Because I don't understand how your rules
Vic00:24:07of language work. Online one word. Online one
JVL00:24:09word. Tell your doctor that despite what that previous number was, you had been on a reduced gluttony diet?
Vic00:24:19The RG... I don't understand how you could get to that number while doing reduced gluttony. This is what I'm thinking. Is reduced gluttony plus the intermittent fasting. That's the key.
Sonny00:24:29That's the key. I think you're also healthier because I am not in the office anymore, so we're not going out to steak lunches. We're going out for martini lunches.
JVL00:24:35We're not going out and drinking martinis. I'm cutting back.
Vic00:24:37I'm cutting back on... Oh, yeah, and I'm... You know, I probably did a whole week of not drinking. And that was insane, as you know. Leading up to the test. Leading up to the test, yeah.
Sonny00:24:47Was the doctor concerned that your hands were jittering?
Vic00:24:51I'm so clammy. I'm so clammy. But on the other hand... Sir, you're sweating. The cholesterol went up, so I'm a little bit disturbed by that. And I don't know why... The good cholesterol or the bad cholesterol? Overall cholesterol, including the bad, is up. And I don't know because I've been taking the fish oil that our friend listener Dan was telling me to take, the SFH fish oil. And every morning, you know, it's not even a pill. It's the oil. And so you're supposed to put it in a cup and you take the oil directly. I just squirted my mouth. Two pumps. Every morning. I know you have that face, JVL, but trust me, you get used to
Sonny00:25:26the taste. You get two pumps in the mouth.
Vic00:25:28Two pumps right in the mouth every morning. It's not too bad. After a while, I was like, ooh, I kind of want it, you know? And it's lemon and mint flavored or orange flavored. Mine might be orange. In any event, those numbers are up. I don't know why. But I don't know what else I can do. What am I going to do? Like give up drinking or something?
JVL00:25:47Yeah, don't be crazy. That would
Vic00:25:48be terrifying. Speaking of terrifying, over the weekend, IT Chapter 2 took the top spot at the box office with 91 million dollars. Followed by Angel Has Fallen with 6 million. And in third place was Good Boys which took in 5.5 million box office slots. This seems like a huge gap between first and second. Yes, how did this happen despite nobody like this movie and yet?
JVL00:26:11No, no. How did it decline like this from the opening? So the first one opened at
Sonny00:26:18or something like that. This one opened at 91. It's down almost 25%. Was it too soon?
JVL00:26:22Was it too soon? Did they follow it too quickly? Should they have waited another year or two?
Sonny00:26:27Well, I mean, look. Here's the problem. From an artistic perspective with this film. I don't know about business, but from an artistic perspective, what you have is a movie that is telling the same story twice. So basically you have, you know, the first so the genius of Stephen King's book, I like it a lot. I know some people don't, but like the genius of the book is that it is essentially telling the same story twice, but it's doing so in parallel structure to emphasize the themes in both timelines. And it also breaks it up with these kind of interludes in Derry, where we go through the history of Derry and you see a bunch of the horrible things that have happened to the people of Derry. And it's all about, it is essentially a, the book itself is actually a book about how prejudice is bad and terrible and horrifying. And it is rife through American history. So there's an argument to be made that this is the great American horror novel in a sort of way. But the problem when you break the movie into two separate parts, one set fully in the past, one set fully in the present, and you get rid of those Derry interludes, is you just have the same story twice. And I think people kind of knew that going in. I mean, I you know, whether or not that's what kept them away from the theaters, I don't know. I also think that there is something to be said for the nameless cast in the first one versus the kind of star-studded cast in this one. I think, you know, we were discussing this the other day, but the idea of kids being terrorized by this clown is inherently more scary than adults. It just is, because there's a certain sense of powerlessness and um um weakness that is inherent in being a child that is not there when you're an adult. It's like you look at these adults chasing around the scary clown and you're like, okay you know, get your crap together. You have issues you know, we all got problems get your stuff together, deal with it. Which is not the same with kids. So I don't know, there are a lot of different things. Was it too soon? I don't know, maybe it was too soon, but we get movies in franchises every two years now and they don't often drop like this. Our friend J-Pod said that I was emailing back and forth with him, he said this is what movies always used to do. Your first movie would do well and then there would be a 30 or 40% drop off on the next one and then the next one would drop too. And we have gotten away from that a little bit. So maybe this is just a reversion to the norm. I mean, the other problem is it got pretty mediocre reviews. At best. It did get pretty mediocre reviews so I don't know that this is something that people were excited to get out there on the first day. Here's another thing it's also almost three hours long. It's two hours and 50 minutes long.
JVL00:29:30Right there is the big problem.
Sonny00:29:32I mean, you know, it's 30 minutes longer than the first one which was already kind of too long.
Vic00:29:39But I don't know. What was Good Boys? Hour and a half? Good Boys is
Sonny00:29:4295 minutes, something like that.
Vic00:29:44Yeah, great. Do you have any other thoughts? No, I was just
Sonny00:29:48I expected that movie to open to like 160 or something like that. That would have been high. I mean, I was expecting in the 110 to 130 range. No, but
JVL00:29:59we have, I mean, Jon is right. It used to be that the sequel was a money grab most of the time that did worse than the original hit, but not always. Lethal Weapon 2 made a lot more money than Lethal Weapon. Shrek 2, a lot more money than Shrek.
Vic00:30:12People love the first movie so much they can't wait for the next installment and then you know the
JVL00:30:16reverse. Pirates of the Caribbean 2 opened much, much bigger than Pirates of the Caribbean even though it wasn't as good. Right. So you get a movie so long as the original hit is well loved. And I thought that it was really well loved. I thought it was very well received. People did not look back on it and think to themselves what were you thinking? Right. This is a movie that was viewed fondly. Was it last year or two years? How long has it been since? Two years. It came out in 2017. Okay.
Vic00:30:42Alright. I don't have any transition to our... Transition! The ad. You need to calm down, but in fact you're calm now, so go for it.
JVL00:30:52I am calm. So we are back with Calm.com, the sleep app for your phone, which has meditations and guided breathing exercises and sleep stories. We use it all the time in our family. It's great. And in fact, we have a new user in our family as of this week. Flash. Wow. Mr. Too-Cool-For-School Flash finally came to us two days ago, three days ago, and said, hey, could you put calm on my iPod? And we were like, what? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I really like the sleep stories. I like Ella's Treasure. And so he said, okay. And so my like super jock 11-year-old is now using the sleep stories to get himself to sleep as well. It's fantastic. It really, all of my kids who are like old enough to be sentient now use it. My wife and I use it. It's fantastic. It is a giant, library of increasing stories, which are of different lengths by fantastic readers. And they just lull you to sleep gently. And it is just fantastic. We have a deal that they give us. Sub-Beacon listeners get 25% off a Calm premium subscription at calm.com slash sub-beacon. That's C-A-L-M dot com slash sub- beacon. 40 million people have downloaded Calm. Find out why at calm.com slash sub-beacon today. Thank you
Vic00:32:28JVL. Speaking of transitions, how about that Dave Chappelle? Can we talk about transitions? Oh! I'm sorry. Speaking of tease. Speaking of tease. So we decided this week because of the box office situation, none of us really wanted to talk about it or see it. I did. And in fact, you just did. In fact, you just did. Thank you, Sonny. But we thought, you know what? Let's do something on comedy on Netflix. It's easy for us. We're at home. But also people are talking about it. For better and for worse. People loved it. Some people hated it. So we're going to talk about Dave Chappelle and sort of comedy and stand-up on TV and movies, etc. Sonny, I mean go for it. Except for everyone's talking about it. I know it's a little bit, but I finally got around to seeing it last night.
Sonny00:33:18Yeah, so Netflix Can we just go back a step first for a second? What I find interesting about Netflix's investment in stand-up comedy is that this is something you see a lot of networks or entities like this do because it is cheap and easy to produce, right? So back in the day, HBO, right? HBO, one of HBO's first big draws. They had boxing and they had stand-up, right?
Vic00:33:44Let me tell you about those stand-ups.
Sonny00:33:46A lot of them aren't great, but I think Delirious was an HBO stand-up. I think it was. At first. That's how it debuted. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But anyway, this is like a this is a kind of long-running thing. Comedy Central when it was kind of getting off the ground, it was like four hours of SNL repeats and then six hours of like really bad stand-up and then like 30 minutes of South Park once a week. You know, like it was like this is this is how the network kind of gets an audience. So Netflix has done the same thing and they've done it. Um, in the most Netflix-y way possible, which is by just throwing giant garbage trucks of cash at people. Like for instance, Dave Chappelle, who they gave, you know, $50 million to do, you know, a series of stand-up specials or something like this. $70 million. I don't even know what the number is. Um, but you know, like you have big, big names. Guys like John Mulaney and Amy Schumer. Uh, Bill Burr has a show out this week. He'd done one. He did a Netflix special back in 2012 or 2013, I think. 14 maybe. I don't know. Um, and uh, it's interesting because, uh, I don't know. This is not the sort of thing that you create a huge library with, I don't think. I don't think a lot of people are going back to watch old specials, but it's definitely the sort of thing that creates a real buzz for a week or two. For instance, Dave Chappelle. Everyone was talking about Dave Chappelle and his new stand-up special Sticks and Stones. Uh, I don't know how you guys felt about it. I thought it was quite funny. Um, but this is largely because Dave Chappelle himself is just an inherently funny person. Um, it is I did not think it was a great, built stand-up set. And what I mean by that is that, like, the best stand-up sets have kind of a rhythm and a flow and almost tell a story. Like, they kind of loop back in on themselves. And you got a little bit of that with the new Chappelle. You got more of it with the first one. The first one he did for Netflix was really good. Uh, and it was kind of structured around the four times he met Mike Tyson. Or, I'm sorry, not Mike. Michael Jackson. Oh. Who was it? Or, no, I'm not Michael Jackson. Uh, OJ. Oh. The four times he met OJ. Simpson. Sorry, I'm running through my African-American celebrity criminals. All the black people you know. Uh, no, but, uh, OJ Simpson. Uh, and it was, it was, like, really well done. And he, like, came out at the end and was like, oh, I forgot. There was one more time. And it, like, the show had a real rhythm to it. Um, this one, this one has a little bit less of that. There's a little bit more ranting at the first. Uh, but he gets into a real rhythm and flow as the things go along. Now, what, what everyone says about the show is that it is designed to trigger the libs. You know, he's, he's out there. He's telling the jokes he can't tell. You know, and, and liberals kind of, like, yawn and say, oh, this is so boring and lazy. And conservatives say, yeah, he's sticking it to him. Take that, you humorless scolds. And all of this is, like, vaguely tiresome in the culture war sense. Uh, except for the fact that I found it to be deeply funny and hilarious and insightful. And the problem, the problem with the liberal critique of this set is that it is lazy. It is as lazy as they claim his, his set is. Because what he is doing, and he is doing it in a provocative way, that he's doing it the way all the best stand-ups do, is he is telling a story of intersectionality. And the fact that these people can't, these people who, like, all they talk about is intersectionality. You know, we've got everybody. He, when he's telling the story about, you know, being able to use the F word versus the N word on TV, when he's telling the story about the car, the alphabet people in the car and how they interact with each other, when he's talking about the white heroin addicts who he's blasting away with his shotgun, you know, you know, I mean obviously a fake story, but like, you know, he's he's telling, he's telling stories about how, or the Juicy Smollet story. He's telling stories about how different groups of people react differently to you know, oppression, shall we say, and it is, it's really interesting to watch from that angle, but you have to actually set aside, you have to set aside the fact in your head, if you are a progressive, that Dave Chappelle has been told to shut up and he refuses to shut up, because that's what it all comes down to. He has been told he's not allowed to make these jokes anymore, and yet he persists. He keeps doing it. He keeps making these awful jokes, and doesn't he understand that he's punching down, and none of the good comedians punch down, like I was watching Delirious this weekend, and I have to tell you, the first, the first five minutes of that set, where Eddie Murphy is talking about gays and AIDS, that is just punching up all the way. That's just punching up all the way, and that's only like the most famous, most beloved stand-up set of all time. So, you know, I, like, the critics have created, have like invented out of whole cloth, this rule that all good comedy punches up, and that no good comedy punches down, and, you know, we all need to be like Nanette and really, you know, think our way through our various problems and think about how terrible the pyramid of oppression is, and, you know, who gets to be at the top of that, and who gets to be at the bottom of it. It is more than anything else, though, it's funny. It made me laugh. And in the end... That's the question. Did you laugh? I did. I laughed a lot. Yeah, so I, you know, I laughed at that. I laughed at the Bill Burr special that dropped this week as well, it is, again, there is a section, it's actually structured fairly similarly to the Chappelle one, there's like kind of an old man yells at cloud section at the beginning of it, like the first 15 minutes or so, and then he kind of moves into, again, like pretty interesting ideas of how people of different races interact with each other. Bill Burr's wife is black. And he said that he sat down and watched a documentary with her about Elvis Presley, and like, throughout the whole thing, she's like, sitting there going, and he's just like getting more and more nervous, and eventually he turns it off. He's like, I don't want to be, I don't, we don't need this. You're about to start yelling at me like I produced the thing. You know, I don't want to have to put up with it. So like, and then they get into back and forth about like, who was offended by what in the documentary. It's interesting. And it's funny. Again, it's just funny. So I am a big fan of these shows, and I think Netflix is doing some thing interesting beyond the whole build a network thing. This will be my last point. They are essentially providing both sides of the political spectrum exactly what they want in this specific moment. They are giving the people on the right the trigger the libs comedy, even if that is an unfairly reductive way of describing it. I think it's fair because it is in fact triggering the libs. But they are also giving the left their thoughtful, intersectional feminist comedy with Nanette and Ali Wong and Amy Schumer and all of those people. And then you have your kind of John Mulaney's who are kind of standard left of center types. And then you have Norm MacDonald again who is kind of more right of center. They have created a comedy ecosystem in which every political perspective can find something that they enjoy. And it's like it's the most triumphant form of capitalism I think that they have managed so far to build. JVL, you have lots of looks on your face.
Vic00:41:29Thank you, Sonny. Always good to have you on the show. JVL.
JVL00:41:36You know, so it's not true that all comedy is offensive, but large swaths of stand-up are by nature offensive. And this goes back to before, I mean the entire idea of an insult. Comic is offending people, right? And so comedy can be offensive and whether it is good or bad, the offensiveness purely depends upon whether or not it's also funny, right? I mean, something that is offensive and not funny is stupid, right? I was never an Andrew Dice Clay guy. Not because he was... Yeah, but not... It was not because he was offensive. I just didn't find it funny.
Vic00:42:18If you go to YouTube, that's still up there Andrew Dice Clay on Rodney Dangerfield's HBO special. It is... There's just no way that that would work today because it's offensive in so many ways, including... But in the end, it's also... And it's funny, I mean, I think, you know, probably people on the right at that time were offended because this guy is so foul and today people on the left would be very offended. He ends about saying if you can't speak the bleeping language, get the bleep out of this country. You know, he does impressions, ethnic impressions. Wow! You know, that... Unsayable. Just a different... Yeah, that's right. Unsayable.
JVL00:42:54But a lot of the... You know, again, I didn't watch Delirious. I re-watched Raw two nights ago. I loved both. In fact, I paid for it on Amazon because the YouTube version of it, the video was so bad, it was hurting
Sonny00:43:08my brain. Well, I was gonna say, Delirious is on Netflix for free. I wanted to watch Raw.
JVL00:43:14You wanted to watch Raw. Raw is the signature stand-up reset of my youth. So, like, eighth grade, everybody was like, have you heard of people trading the audio tape of Raw? And, again, unperformable today. I don't even know if you could be allowed to watch it and say it's funny.
?00:43:35But
JVL00:43:35the truth is... But it's funny. Well, much of it is funny. His impression of Richard Pryor? There's a big section in the middle of it which is all about... which is really like service for the live audience. It's cheap pop where it's about men, women cheating. And that's not very funny. It's only funny to the people in the audience. It sort of doesn't play. But in the beginning he does a monologue of... he does a fake Bill Cosby monologue. Which I don't know if we're allowed to laugh at anymore since everybody hates Bill Cosby. But it's such a meta, meta comic joke. Because he's complaining about Bill Cosby complaining about him. But he does it in the form of a Bill Cosby monologue. And it's so good. And then he switches into a Richard Pryor monologue. And it's... Man, there are parts of that which just kill. And are eternal. I actually disagree with you on the idea that these things aren't good for library. I think they're awesome for library. Because every time a new special comes out from the comic, you are right there to then say, hey, would you like to look at the other three things from this? If you like this comic.
Sonny00:44:38The way Netflix is built to capture your attention and keep you there for a long time. That's true.
JVL00:44:43And there's a more continuity between a specific comic than there is, say, between a specific actor or director, right? If you watch on Netflix a movie starring Henry Cavill, you may or may not like the next Henry Cavill movie they suggest to you. But if you like Dave Chappelle, you're probably going to like
Vic00:45:00Dave Chappelle. Because the material is going to be consistently...
JVL00:45:02I thought the Sticks and Stones set was good, but was lesser Chappelle. I thought it had two truly great jokes in it. The first of which was the opening one with Anthony Bourdain.
Vic00:45:14Which is really dark, but really funny. And there's, yeah, it's a great one.
JVL00:45:20It's a dark wind-up. It's one of the things where it is a dark one, and it's like, you are, man, that is on the verge of being like, just, why would you do
Sonny00:45:28that? But, man, he delivers it. But here's, I thought he was going to come back to that. And this is what I mean when I say I don't know that the structure of the whole thing works. Because I feel like if he had had another two or three months on the road to really get out there and test it, because what he's doing in that opening bit is he's saying, nobody knows what anybody else's life is like. You can't look at this rich white guy and be like, he must have a great life, right? Correct. Okay, so then the rest of the story, the rest of the set in bits and pieces is about how other people have terrible lives, despite the fact that you think that, you know, they're... My life is an above-ground pool?
JVL00:46:04Right, right, right. Perfect. That's exactly
Sonny00:46:06a great line. And he just, I feel, again, I feel like there's, if he's doing, if he was doing one set a year, like Louis C.K. used to do a set a year where he would spend all year developing 60 minutes, 60 new fresh minutes, and then at the end there'd be a HBO special or whatever. If he was doing one special a year, I feel like he could tie all that together better. Yeah, I know, I
JVL00:46:32totally agree. But he does, you know what? It was a little bit
Vic00:46:34shambling, I thought. It is, it's more of a conversation than it is sort of an actual structured routine. Did you guys watch the epilogue? I did! I did! The Q&A, Q&A.
Sonny00:46:42It was the Q&A, so he did those Broadway shows, and he, like, they filmed, he did Q&As afterwards with the audience. How was it? It was good. It's interesting. It's very,
Vic00:46:52very interesting. It's interesting because he talks about the woman who storms out of the, of his set, right? And then, during a Me Too thing, but then there was another person, he says her name is Daphne, who is transgender, and she laughed at every joke, and then in his mind he's like, oh no, I haven't even gotten to that part, and do I do it? And then he does do it, and he says that she laughed even harder, and then he talks about meeting up with her at a bar, afterwards having a drink with her, and then it's going into this very sort of meaningful thing about how it affects her, and so it's sort of this thing, and then at the end he's like I didn't realize, oh right, because he used to be a man. You know what I mean? It was like a punchline like that, and it was pretty funny, but I think the audience was with him all the way. No, that's what I was going to say. If you look at that audience, there are some people who have great seats, by the way, amazing seats, and they're not... Sitting like
Sonny00:47:48Fred Barnes. Yes,
Vic00:47:50speaking of Fred Barnes, Sonny, you know... I'm sorry, I have my arms
Sonny00:47:54crossed. Sorry, sorry.
Vic00:47:55I kind of hunched my shoulders over. That's exactly right. Love you, Fred. These kind of, not every comedian is for every audience, and that reminded me of Fred, who, he likes comedians. You know what he told me? He's like, you know who I like? I like that Sinbad. He's good. And in fact, Fred went to see Sinbad. Fred went to see Sinbad at the MCI Center. Good clean fun. Good clean fun, family entertainment, religious guy. Yeah, I like that Sinbad. So, anyway, but yeah, the audience the Jussie Smollett part the Jussie Smollett part, not a lot of people laughing at that. So the funny
JVL00:48:28the other, I thought, truly inspired joke in it was when he starts talking about guns and gun control and says that, you know, it's an election year, there's only one thing we have to do we gotta all go out there and we gotta register. And so then, like, the audience all starts going with him. Yes, exactly like this. And you're heading into Claptor and he's reeling him in on this and I don't even think they got the punch line, right? So then and he goes, and we gotta go out and every able-bodied African-American has gotta go out and lawfully purchase a gun and everybody's going crazy because they think he's talking about race war and they then miss the punch line, which is that, because that's the only way we're gonna get the white people to ban guns. And it's that joke is hysterical and I just don't think I think the Claptor actually clouded out the realization that there's a really funny joke in there. Yeah
Vic00:49:22same thing, he does the impression, because I'm gonna I don't do many impressions, I'll do one impression and one where he says, it's you you know what I mean? Where he says that and it's the whole thing about we're gonna come back to you in this sort of Me Too thing, we're gonna get you for something you said. But you know, somebody yells out in the audience, Trump! You know and it's like, no, that's a terrible impression if it was. But again so it's a weird audience. I was thinking about this also, Sonny, when you talked about Delirious you wanna, I mean it's a it's a weird crowd when Eddie Murphy does Delirious, it's like just after the election so it's like November, whatever, 1984 he does it at Constitution Hall and he talks about, wow, Ronald Reagan, you know, got re-elected. The whole place erupts in boos. You know, everybody's up there. The guy wins 49 out of 50 states and yet he's so hated, you know, in D.C. It's just, it's different It's amazing. Did you like it? I liked it a lot. I give it an A+. I appreciate I appreciate the work that goes into the comedy and I, it's little things, you know, he does a thing where he, we're talking about sticks and sticks and stones and Dave Chappelle and I'm not a big fan of certain there's like certain like hack comedian types who will laugh a lot at their own jokes just to give them, and it's time. It stretches out a thing that, like one good thing that's funny and maybe the rest of it is not funny but, and he doesn't do that but he does this little trick where he does the walk back, you know, and it's a great visual. It also gives them time I mean, look, he has no, they have, the amazing thing about these comedians, they have no notes. It's not like they're reading anything, you know, it's all up in their head. So he does that, he paces around, and then he delivers the next line and he just keeps you going, and I thought it really worked well, even when the guy's cell phone goes off and he turns out, which could you know, I thought to myself, God forbid, another one went off later it would totally, I mean, if that were you, you know, you'd be totally just, you know wrecked by it, and so he's very good about that, and I know that these comedians work very, very hard. I remember Larry Miller, our friend, he, I remember seeing him in D.C., and then I was up in his hotel suite at the Mayflower and he had papers everywhere, just papers everywhere with pencil, just material, all sorts of material until you whittle it down to your 45 minute bit, or whatever it is, your hour bit. Honing a set
JVL00:51:40is awfully hard, right? I mean, the amount of work, the amount of hours that must go into getting even like 10 really good minutes. Well, this is one of the reasons
Sonny00:51:49I like The Marvelous Miss May Hazel. I don't know if you guys have watched it. Sure, definitely. On Amazon, the show is kind of a rambling mess. It's like all these shows, it's like four hours too long each season, whatever. But the most interesting parts to me are the parts where she's actually crafting her set, and they usually kind of dispense with it in a montage, where it's like, she does one joke, it doesn't quite work, and then she tweaks it slightly in the next shot and gets a little more laughs, and like you see the evolution of the joke over a brief period of time, which is I think very kind of interesting and an intuitive way of understanding the difficulty of getting a hard five.
Vic00:52:30I like the manager, Susie. That's who I like.
JVL00:52:33I did have a thought in all of this. Listening to, I think there are two things going on with the Chappelle set. So there's a guild mentality, which is part of it, which is defending Kevin Hart, defending Louis C.K. I mean, it's, you know, these comics do basically stand up for one another. There's a precept in IP law where a copyright is only valid if it is enforced all the time. And so if you hold a copyright for something and people go and use it all the time, you never raise a stink, and then 20 years later, somebody uses it, you send them a cease and desist letter, you're going to lose that case, right? You have to enforce the copyright in order for it to remain effective and valid. There's something like that going on, I think, with Chappelle here, where they have this precept that you have to be able to do comedy that's offensive, and so he's just going to go out and do it anyway. And so I think a lot of these comedies, the Bill Burr set seemed to me to be largely about, is if we don't go out, things are so weird in terms of the way people get offended. Because people were offended, if you go back to George Carlin, or Richard Pryor, or Eddie Murphy, it was offensive, and people kind of got off on the offensiveness of it. There was a frisson of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe he's doing that. And now that has turned into the audience not being down with it. I mean, the audience, when all those, if you go back and look at the other, you look at Delirious, and Raw, and George Carlin, when they're being offensive, the audience is along for the offensiveness because they think the idea of being offensive is itself subversive, and they're kind of like, they're there for that. And that is not the case. The Bill Burr show, that audience is not with him for big parts of it. The audience for Chappelle is really in and out. Is in and out on him. And I get the sense that they're, within the comedy world, they feel like they have to go out, even if they, and just displease the audience, in order to, again, enforce the copyright so they can still have license to be offensive down the road. Maybe that's not true. I don't know. But I wonder if that's only the famous comics who will do that. I wonder if there are young comics coming up. I wonder if the marketplace is going to reward that sort of thing, or if it's going to reward people who are more woke. Have you
Vic00:54:51either of you gentlemen gone to a stand-up, like a comedy club? Not in like 20 years. Sure. But yeah. Yeah. I went many, many, many years ago to the, well, I went to the Improv to see Larry Miller, but before that I also went to the Improv to see the late Shirley Hemphill from What's Happening. She was the waitress from What's Happening. You know who I went with? Jay Nordlinger.
JVL00:55:18Jay Nordlinger loves
Vic00:55:20Shirley Hemphill. He loves Shirley Hemphill. And he loves Raising Comedy. I mean, Jay went to see Rodney Dangerfield, you know, but and the two of us went there and it was fantastic but, and she was great, I mean, and she was old, but the other thing is the opening acts. You know, you could see these aspiring comedians and they're trying and you see what works, what doesn't work, and it is. It's interesting because some of the stuff they say, which is very still politically incorrect, you don't know if they can say that anymore. I mean, this is the whole thing about Seinfeld saying he doesn't want to do camp, college. Nobody. Chris
JVL00:55:50Rock, right? Can't do colleges.
Vic00:55:51And do you remember what happened after Seinfeld said that? A kid from one of the San Diego schools replied, like published a letter in response to Seinfeld saying that's not true at all. You can come here and perform and be funny, but you just have to be funny about the right people.
JVL00:56:05I did not remember that.
Vic00:56:08We will determine
JVL00:56:09what is funny. So, Sonny, you talked about the full spectrum on this, and that's true for now, but I do wonder if 10 years from now that is true. Yeah. Or if everybody coming up through the comedy pipeline will just be over where the left is.
Sonny00:56:27I don't know. That would be sad. I think it's probably going to be closer. I think the dystopian future where it's nothing but punching up is the likely outcome.
JVL00:56:38What are your guys' favorite stand-ups? Who is your favorite stand-up?
Vic00:56:46I will say this. I have a lot. I respect all these guys. I respect all these guys. Again, doing stand-up comedy is very hard. I enjoyed the Chris Rock special. I can't go away. Just do a funny voice. If that's your routine, you know. So I used to watch the Ronnie Dangerfield specials on HBO and he'd bring up, you know, at Dangerfield, his own club, he'd bring up these up-and-comers, you know. And some of them, like, you know, Andrew Dice Clay's opening routine, it's very edgy. Sam Kinison, it's very edgy. And then there's certain people who it's the same material all the time. And I remember he had Rita Rudner on, you know, or whoever, and there's Paula Poundstone. And Tom Hanks, remember he did, that was the whole thing, Punchline, the movie, with Sally Field. And he did a special and he brought up the stand-up comedians who were in, had bit parts in the movie and I had seen their stuff before and they go up and give their stand-up and it's the same material, you know what I mean? And it's like, I don't know where they are now. It's hard work. So I'm not a fan of theirs. I would say this, I'm a fan of, I like everybody. No, but if you go to, go to YouTube, go to YouTube and look up Flip Wilson on the Tonight Show. He tells a joke about the ugly baby. The ugly baby joke. It is, it's black and white. It's from the early Tonight Show with Carson. But he tells it so well. And one of the big things is having a cigarette and Chappelle does the same thing. The cigarette is a great prop. You need it. It helps just with your own pacing and things. Flip Wilson has a cigarette and it's like an art form. And he tells that joke so perfectly about the ugly baby. It's just like 101 about how to tell a good joke.
JVL00:58:26So I'll say that. That's right. You know, so Larry Miller had a great story about going on Carson where if you would go on Carson for the first time, your Carson virginity and you knew whether or not you landed because at the end of the set, if Carson liked you, he would nod you over to the couch. And if he didn't like you, he was like, thanks so much. Thanks so much for having you. We'll be right back. Folks. And Larry, he wrote an essay about this for us about the terror of going on, not even so much about the the act of performing on camera, but about will he get the nod or not get the nod? Yeah, that's
Vic00:59:05right. That's right. He also remember and he used to open up for Sinatra and he told the story about Brad Garrett also opening up for Sinatra. You know the story where he opens up for Brad, he opens up for Sinatra and at the end he knocks, you know, he kills the crowd. They love it. It's an opening act and this is like at the Sands or wherever in Vegas. And at the very end, Brad Garrett says, thanks a lot. You've been a great crowd. Stick around for Frank. All right. And you cannot say that. And so of course you know, Jilly or whoever, you know, Sinatra's manager was at the time you know, brings him over and chews him out and says, you know, what the hell do you mean? Stick around. You think they were here for you? You think they were going to leave? You know, and then like the following day he gets a call, you know, from Mr. Sinatra wants to see you. And then he comes down and he says that Frank was getting his suit tailored. So he says, you know, he's just standing in the mirror, the three-way and the tailor is there with him and his, you know, and his boxers. And he doesn't even turn around and look at Brad Garrett. He just goes, what's this? I hear you said, stick it to Frank.
JVL01:00:01So he just like travels and it ends badly. Garrett looks down and he's standing on plastic sheeting. Yeah, yeah, plastic sheeting.
Vic01:00:07Exactly. Right. Oh, no. Sonny, who do you like? Who's your favorite?
Sonny01:00:13Big fan of Gilbert Godfrey. Big fan of Norm Macdonald.
Vic01:00:17Does he still follow you? Can I ask that? He does.
Sonny01:00:21Big fan of Norm Macdonald. Big fan of Carrot Top. You know, Carrot Top, this is, you say that as a joke, but I've actually seen his set. It was actually not unreasonably funny. Is this pre or post prop?
JVL01:00:35Because didn't he remake himself as he roided out? Well, he made him, he got rid of the prop comics and he went on roids
Sonny01:00:41and became a serious comic. He was still doing the props. It's fine. Oh, who else? I mean, I like Bill Burr a lot. Have you, JVL, have you ever listened to Bill Burr going after the Philly crowd? No. Oh, there, you just, look it up on YouTube. So, Bill Burr was doing a, like, kind of live show I think with Opie and Anthony or something, and he, like, goes out there and, like, the Philly crowd is rowdy. And he, they won't shut up, and he just tears them apart. He just tears apart the city of Philadelphia. So, you gotta look that up. It's great. Galagher? Yeah, speaking of props, have a
Vic01:01:25Galagher. You like the water? You gotta bring a trench coat. Speaking of people I
Sonny01:01:29have never really understood, Galagher. I don't know. I mean, Dave Chappelle is, like, the gold standard of modern comedy. Louis C.K.'s stand-up sets are hilarious. Chris Rock, hilarious. I don't really like Seinfeld stand-up. I don't know. I mean, it's fine.
Vic01:01:49Well, that's also very safe. Everyone can go to a Seinfeld one and not worry that, oh, they're gonna, you know, I'm gonna be offended about something like that. I mean, that's the thing. And a lot of the observations are great. He does a lot of great little observations. And John
Sonny01:02:01Mulaney's shows on Netflix are very good. I mean, I, like, I'm not, I am not as into stand-up as I used to be because I don't go to the improv anymore. But do you have an all-time favorite? Are you a Richard Pryor guy? No, no, I don't. I don't. I don't. I really
Vic01:02:17do like Dangerfield. I'll say that. Dangerfield. Yeah, that makes sense to me. And again, a joke that just wouldn't work today. He talks about a joke about going on different diets. He tried every diet. You know this one? He goes, I even tried the rice diet, but every two hours I was ironing my shirts. You can't say that. Are you bleeping that, Sonny? Are you bleeping that? Okay. So anyway, I will say, lastly, Dangerfield. And Jim Gaffigan. Nobody brought Jim Gaffigan up. You know, he went to Georgetown. Okay. Moving right along. The Catholic comedian.
Sonny01:02:46Can I? Jim Gaffigan. Didn't he open for the Pope? Can I confess something? I think you did. Maybe I'm right. Okay. JVL.
JVL01:02:54My all-time favorite comedy set is Robin Williams at the Met in 1986. Yeah, absolutely. I've probably watched that a dozen times over the course of my life. And it works for me. I remember having a conversation with one of our friends, a professional stand-up comic. It was as if I was talking about literature with somebody and I said, well, you know, that David Baldoni his stuff is unbelievable. I mean, I know a lot of people. I love Daniel Steele. I know a lot of people like Tolstoy, but he looked at me with this look of utter horror that I could like. And I get the sense that this is how comedians hated Robin Williams and really looked down on him. That's interesting. Well, he was a joke thief, right?
Sonny01:03:43Wasn't he really? Is that right? He was a
JVL01:03:45joke thief. But I think beyond the thievery, they just think he's not funny. And that all of the laughs he gets are performance based and not writing based because he's manic. There's probably something to that. But, and here I am the plebeian, but I really like that. But you like it, you know? Hardest working comedian. Scott Patterson. Who's like the terrible best-selling author?
Vic01:04:07Yeah, yeah, yeah. James Patterson. James Patterson. Of course, everyone says the hardest working comedian was Jay Leno, right? I mean, he was working all the time.
JVL01:04:16Yeah, that guy did like, what? 15 sets a week or something like that. Constant.
Vic01:04:19Okay, good. Any other comedy thoughts ? Okay. Listen, folks, this episode of the Sub-Beacon is sponsored by NetSuite. If you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business, but the problem growing businesses have, that keeps them from knowing their numbers is their hodgepodge of business systems. They have one system for accounting, another for sales, another for inventory, and so on. It's just a big inefficient mess. Taking up too much time and too many resources, and that hurts the bottom line. Introducing NetSuite by Oracle, the business management software that handles every aspect of your business and an easy-to-use, cloud platform, giving you the visibility and control you need to grow. With NetSuite, you save time, money, and unneeded headaches by managing sales, finance, and accounting orders and HR instantly right from your desktop or phone. That's why NetSuite is the world's number one cloud business system. And right now, NetSuite is offering you valuable insights with a free guide. Seven key strategies to grow your profits at netsuite.com slash subbeacon. That's netsuite.com slash subbeacon to download. Your free guide, seven key strategies to grow your profits, netsuite.com slash subbeacon. I did not have a transition for anything about cloud computing. Corrections, additions, shoutouts. Nothing. Okay, we had a listener who said that the Hux comic, we did. They said it's not a Hux comic, but it was like a one sheet or something. A one shot. A one shot. Somebody said that, yeah. That's still a comic.
JVL01:05:47No, but I thought it was an ongoing series. That's less terrible, I guess. I guess. Okay. I don't know. All right.
Vic01:05:53Okay. That's all the time we're giving to this episode. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at Victorino Matus at Sonny Bunch. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher. Just type in subbeacon under podcast. We're there. Leave a review. Tell your friends. Until next time. Anything? Give me something. Yeah, nothing. Nothing?
JVL01:06:23Wow. You know, I What? Say it. Whatever. There is a difference between we didn't talk about this, but between the performative versus the writing. Yes. In stand-up. And there are some guys who are such great performers that they can get by on subpar writing. And there are some guys who are just great, such great writers that they can get by on
Sonny01:06:45not being the best performers.
JVL01:06:47That's right. And it's I don't know. The best jokes, work at a bunch of different levels. One of my Sarah Silverman, who used to be quite funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if she still is or still is. I don't know. So she opened one of her sets early with this. It's a 19-word joke. It's really funny. And she goes, so I'm licking jelly off my boyfriend's p***s the other day. And the audience goes crazy because they think that this is the joke. And then she drops the hammer on them. And she goes, and I thought, my God, I'm turning into my mother. And that's hysterical, right? Because you get the jokes. If they're written well enough, they don't even have to be big. They don't have to be complicated. They can be gross. They can be offensive. They don't even have to be highbrow. But if they're tight enough, right? That's right. There is a level where you've got to shave words off and get every, the best of these jokes work when they're really, really, really sharp enough
Vic01:07:39to cut glass. You know what also works? If you take a sledgehammer to a watermelon.
JVL01:07:43Yeah, I'm sure that's fun.
Spot something wrong in this episode? Suggest a correction →
Comments
Loading…