#48. The Rise of Skywalker, the Future of Star Wars, and Musicals!
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The Skywalker saga ends and nobody is thrilled. Vic gives The Rise of Skywalker a B+ — delighted to learn afterward that he had independently matched the CinemaScore, the first Star Wars film ever to fall below an A-minus — though he complains the runtime is too long and that he felt beaten over the head with messaging, from the blink-and-miss lesbian kiss to the arriving "diversity of ships" that his wife Kate described as Dunkirk with spaceships. Sonny says flatly that he did not care for it, singling out the Sith planet and Sith chorus as silly and the CGI Carrie Fisher as genuinely uncomfortable to watch — he compares the seams to the Simpsons episode where they have to cut together the Radioactive Man movie after Milhouse quits — but grants that C-3PO's comic relief works and that J.J. Abrams did the best he could with what he was handed, since the film is essentially a direct sequel to The Force Awakens that retcons and repudiates The Last Jedi. His verdict is that all of it is Kathleen Kennedy's fault, a trilogy run like "an Upright Citizens Brigade sketch" with nobody at the top mapping the story, which he calls close to corporate malfeasance. JVL, perversely, liked it best of the three because it stuck the landing on the Kylo-Rey relationship, yet he catalogs at length the ways Abrams settles scores with Rian Johnson — the mask reassembled, Force-ghost Luke catching the tossed lightsaber and saying "show some respect," the Holdo maneuver dismissed as a one-in-a-million shot, Rose reduced to watching a computer, and the supposedly worthless Jedi texts turning out to hold the Sith Wayfinder — before declaring it settled science that Rey is a Mary Sue, since she now heals the dying, beats Palpatine in two minutes, and goes "full Moana" across a storm-wracked ocean without a single setback. He also sat down with a calculator: if the Sith fleet is 10,000 times the First Order's hundred ships, that's a million Star Destroyers, 55 built per day for fifty years, six billion crew and 400 billion gallons of water, all with no visible supply chain. Opening at $175.5 million on Disney's own low-ball estimate, revised down all weekend from Thursday projections near $193 million, neither Sonny nor JVL expects it to clear $500 million domestic. Cats landed fourth with $6.5 million, prompting Vic's full Gene Shalit impression ("Cats was catatonic at the box office... she had me rum-tum-tugging... I give Cats two stars, not even enough to give one paws"), which spirals into Sonny confessing he simply does not get musical theater — he was miserable through Book of Mormon at the Kennedy Center and can barely make out sung lyrics, "almost a medical condition" — while Vic defends Sweeney Todd, Guys and Dolls and The Producers and JVL insists you can't understand 1970s America without A Chorus Line and Cats, "and these shows are such dog crap." They also gush over the Tenet trailer, the ear-splitting Top Gun: Maverick IMAX preview, and JVL's early-morning war stories from rowing crew, a sport whose hazing, he says, is the sport itself.
From the show notes
#cdata-section -------------- In this holiday episode, sponsored by SwagRight.com , we take on Star Wars: The...
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00What are you doing there, 3PO? Taking one last look, sir, at my friends.
Vic00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another edition of The Sub Beacon, sponsored by SwagRite.com. I'm Victor Matys, along with the city bunch of Jonathan V. Last. Just a reminder, The Sub Beacon is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Look on our podcast and search for Sub Beacon. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Gentlemen, how are we? Merry Christmas week? I can't believe I came into the office for this.
Sonny00:00:53In this house, we say happy holidays.
Vic00:00:54Oh.
Sonny00:00:55No, I'm just kidding. Merry Christmas, everyone.
Vic00:00:57Merry, oh, Merry Christmas. JVL, what's going on?
Sonny00:01:00Why did you dress like that today?
Vic00:01:02Ah, because...
Sonny00:01:03You are wearing team colors. I don't wear... Tell the people what you're wearing.
Vic00:01:07I'm wearing my Georgetown hoodie that I've owned for about 20 years, as you can see from the sleeves, and my shorts and sneakers. I normally do not dress like this in the office, but the office is on vacation this week. So after the show, I'm just going to go work out.
JVL00:01:21This is how you dressed every single day on campus.
Vic00:01:24Oh, on campus.
JVL00:01:25Right? This is how you walked around.
Vic00:01:27A little bit, yeah. No, no. that in my benetton sweater and maybe you know that i tied around my neck and uh my tommy hill figure american flag sweater yeah i had i had the whole thing remember this was the yes yes from the
Sonny00:01:4190s this was the 90s what was what who is the tie the tie maker in georgetown there's like britches
Vic00:01:47oh britches of georgetown i i think i still have no that closed years ago it went out of it went under it went out of business uh which was such a shame but yeah it's funny you should remember that one uh i own i think i might still have a tire two left from britches i love that store and that it was very it but you know you know it was a small i mean it's like you go out you're not going to find britches anywhere else and you can't they can't compete i found i found that i grew up thinking that one day i'd get to dress like you're dressed right now have you ever i've never have Do you ever have, like, any sort of J-H-U? What's the word I'm looking for? Regalia? No, swag.
JVL00:02:28I kept my crew jacket because I couldn't bear to part with that because I did work incredibly hard to get my stupid jacket for that stupid sport.
Sonny00:02:39What were you going to say, Sonny? I didn't know you were a Winklevii. Yeah, I was a Winklevii. Have we talked about that on the show? We must have at some point, but I have totally spaced out. I didn't realize that you rode crew.
JVL00:02:49you have the height i did no see but i'm i'm the weird in between body so for crew the the lightweight guys are like 155 and i have not weighed 155 since like eighth grade right i mean they're like 155 lean when i was when i was just lean like i got shoulders like like it did no way for me even when i was trying to cut weight to get down to the lightweight i almost killed myself to and I got to, like, 172. But on the other hand, the heavyweight guys are enormous. The heavyweight guys are all, like, 6'5", 240. And so, like, a normal guy like me, who when I was in, like, really, really ripped-out crew shape, was 6'2", 180. Yeah, there's really no place for you. Wow, that's interesting.
Sonny00:03:40Wait, so wait, could you explain to me the different, why they have big weight, like, heavyweights and lightweights?
Vic00:03:46Yeah, and are they all on the same?
JVL00:03:49We're on the same team, but you have boats.
Vic00:03:51Yeah, are they all on the same boat or no?
JVL00:03:53No, no, no, no. So there's the heavyweight boats and the lightweight boats. And so you're all on the same team, but a program will field both like a heavy eight, a light eight, a heavy four, a light four, et cetera, et cetera.
Vic00:04:07You look at the one in my office, and every now and then you see them on a cold morning rowing. And I thought I think I remember it at time at Georgetown because that was it's a very popular sport at Georgetown. Crew is. But it just struck me as brutal because they're up early. What time did you have to get up for?
JVL00:04:25I was up at four every morning. You know, it's funny, though, because crew is one of those things that looks from a distance like the most wonderful thing.
Vic00:04:34There's a romantic notion. You are.
JVL00:04:36If you are. I'm up here. Right. I want the 26th. I'm like, look at that. That is so gliding across the water. Gliding across the water. It just looks beautiful.
Vic00:04:45Because I want to be like Rob Lowe from Oxford Blues or the Winklevii. This is why I was like, ah.
JVL00:04:51And up close, it is the most unpleasant, horrible, ridiculous sport ever.
Vic00:04:59And you had like hazing initiations and the whole thing, right? To get into the, no? Didn't you have to like, there was like a lot of drinking and then you sweated out the next morning and stuff like that? You told me a story years ago with something to that effect.
JVL00:05:12crew crew is its own for sport is its own hazing yeah the hazing is the sport the sport is you know for the first two weeks of every year uh as you are building up the calluses on your hands your hands just are ripped bloody and you can't like even did you did you did you uh robe prior to college no because my we so crew did not exist as a high school sport obviously until but now it is So now, like, every halfway, even public schools, every halfway rich, upper middle class public school in America has a crew program now.
Sonny00:05:48Because that's one of the cheater ways into the schools.
JVL00:05:52Maybe it is. Are you saying Lori Loughlin's daughter was not on the crew team at USC?
Sonny00:05:57This was, like, the whole thing with the college admissions scandal is that, like, you know, you have all of these, like, I don't want to call them pseudo sports, but pseudo sports where, like, rich people, like, you know, either get their kids good in that, you know, ridiculous sport or just, like, kind of buy their way under the table.
JVL00:06:17Well, see, and cruise is one of those things because they always cruise a very expensive sport institutionally because the boats and the oars cost a ton of money. Plus, you're paying dock fees and boathouse fees and all that. So if you are rich and you can walk, I would like to buy you guys a Vespoli 8. Like, oh, is that a boat? It's a very large, very expensive boat.
Vic00:06:39Well, how small do the coxswains have to be? Little. Really?
JVL00:06:42Little tiny people. Are they like the jockeys? Basically, except, you know, this is a weird thing to say. So a replacement level cox is essentially, it's like, you know, they're like six inches tall. Hey, that's pretty big. I thought that's big. Whoa, hey, replacement level. A replacement level coxswain adds almost nothing.
Sonny00:07:07But a good coxswain is forking amazing.
JVL00:07:12Because a good coxswain is like having the best personal coach you could ever possibly have with you in the middle of a sporting event or a run. So good coxswains were, man, golden. Good to know. How are you boys? How are you boys?
Vic00:07:29I'm doing well, Sonny.
JVL00:07:31How are things at Rebel? I'm super excited. About? Super excited. I have a new favorite website. Oh, tell us about it. Rebelormedia.com. Whoa. I was literally texting Sonny. I don't think I texted you. I didn't bother you with this stuff a few days ago. Thank you. Sonny, your site is so good. Thank you. Thank you. That's very nice of you to say. It is literally the movie website that I have been secretly wanting in my heart. You didn't even know. But didn't even know because I fell off of the Ain't It Cool News movie website, movie media bandwagon probably about seven or eight years ago. because most of it stopped being good. And this is so good. The aggregation part of it at the top, I love. You've got Outlaw Vern from AICN writing for you, one of the best writers in all of film news. It's so good. You've done an amazing job. Thank you, thank you. I'm super excited. I'm now there like twice a day. Is this week two? Week two?
Sonny00:08:33Well, I mean, yeah, we're at the start of week two. We went live six days ago, so week two.
Vic00:08:40Three day plus six, go ahead. How is it for you on the production side?
Sonny00:08:44It's good. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. How long, like 30 hours a week? Like 35? Like 20 hours a week. How many podcasts a week do you have to do? I have to do so many podcasts. It's the worst. Speaking of podcasts, though, we finally, the podcast that I've been taping with Peter Suderman and Alyssa Rosenberg across the movie aisle is up, and it is finally up on iTunes. So people will actually, or Apple Podcasts or whatever. May I make a suggestion? Yes.
JVL00:09:09Can you do another podcast?
Sonny00:09:11Yes, probably.
JVL00:09:13With Megan McArdle and Matt Gertz.
Sonny00:09:16That would be pretty funny. That would be actually... We should have Shannon, because Beth wouldn't really want to do it, but Shannon would probably be super into it. No, you. No, no, no. The joke here, of course, people,
JVL00:09:27is that Megan McArdle is Pete Suderman's spouse and my buddy Matt Gertz from... The congressman from Florida. No, not that one. from Media Matters for America is Alyssa Rosenberg's spouse. This would be funny if you had a show with each pair of spouses. It would be funny. It would be funny.
Sonny00:09:44No, I don't think that's a good idea. We already have one NPR-style podcast. That's probably enough for my boss. No, but that podcast is up. It's called Across the Movie Aisle. If you like the sub beacon, you'll enjoy this too, I think. It's different because it is politics. there's we talk politics on this one
JVL00:10:07that story about the time Alyssa got so drunk at a party that she had to go outside and just like wait in the car while Pete was apologizing to people for her what is that it's a wrong different show I'm sorry I still have it
Vic00:10:21recovered from oh you're just I'm still
Sonny00:10:23this is a reference to last week's episode
Vic00:10:25of the sub beacon what do you call it a callback callback callback callback
Sonny00:10:28now Peter and Alyssa are both
JVL00:10:31very responsible drinkers
Sonny00:10:32the anyway that's a But the site itself is going very well. I mean, look, I get up at like 5.30 in the morning to do the first round of aggregation. Right, right. Well, it's like, I mean, it's not quite going to the steel factory. If you work in digital media. The foundry. But your days begin early. Right. Sometimes. Depends. Depends on where you are. And I'm basically going to bed at 10 and passing out. Yeah, because it's a startup. We're doing a lot of stuff. We're doing a lot of stuff.
Vic00:11:08Sounds like me, but I'm usually somewhere at a party when that happens.
Sonny00:11:13But it's great, rebellermedia.com. The outreach from SubBeacon listeners has been very fantastic. The promo code, SubBeacon, two words, all caps, SubBeacon, has gotten a lot of play. What's the URL again? Rebellermedia.com. Oh, rebellermedia.com. Rebellermedia.com. Rebellermedia.com. Not rebeller.com. Not Reveller.com. Revellermedia.com. Subbeacon promo code. Check it out.
Vic00:11:39Is it lithub.colliteraryhub.com? I always get mixed up with the hubs. GitHub? The other hub. Okay. So, yes, thank you. Thank you, Sonny. Revellermedia.com. I am just trying to survive.
JVL00:11:55Oh, I'm sorry. I have to tell you while we're here. I was really excited about coming to your New Year's Eve party this year. Yes. But I won't be here. I know my invitation got lost in the mail, but I just wanted you to know that I would have come this year when I got my invitation, but I'm going to be in New Jersey.
Vic00:12:13I email you every year, jlastoweaklystandard.com. So I'm doing well, but I'm just trying to get by. My son is just now recovering from the flu. He had the flu shot, but they say it takes like two weeks, and it was like two days later. So it was already obviously going to happen. So he's getting over that. At that point, the flu shot may have actually made it worse.
JVL00:12:35It may have weakened his body. That is Kate's theory. So that the flu. Kate's theory.
Vic00:12:38It was terrible. He had a 102 fever, the whole thing. So he's doing better now. But he missed like four days of school. My daughter has kind of a. Just play video games all day. Yep. On this iPad, there's like a game with tanks. And yeah, it looks. I wish I said I wish I had that game when I was a kid. Instead, we had what? Battle Zone. Battle Zone.
JVL00:12:55You can see right through the tank.
Vic00:12:56You can see right through it. It's just. Yes. Dimensions. It's like a thing. But you did get to look through the... Yeah, you would realize in an arcade how dirty that thing is. You stick your face into that thing. It's just that soft rubber. Yeah, it's a soft rubber, and it's the same one for that submarine game. Not antimicrobial. Yeah, it's just a submarine game. Periscope one. You know, just firing torpedoes everywhere. Okay, so he's on the mend. My daughter had some sort of bad cough. Kate complains of back pain. I don't think that's from the flu. Just saying. And so I'm getting by, but I think I have the reason or the secret, I should say, for getting better. Two things. One is clementines. Yes, clementines. So I've been having a clementine a day, and I'll tell you what happened. So I didn't know this. Obviously, it was during the day. Kate must have donated to, like, the local high school or whatever. So I'm home. Knock on the door. They open the door, and there are two high school girls holding a box of clementines. So I look, and I said, oh, I said Christmas has come early. And your ankle bracelets start beeping. And she starts beeping. So anyway, I got very excited. I said, oh, Christmas has come early. And they just sort of just dropped the box, and then they ran away. I said, I was talking about the clementines. The clementines. Girls, where are you going? No respect. No respect. Hey, girls. And so that was the end of that. But I do appreciate the clementines. And, of course, as you mentioned earlier, exercise. And so, again, I'm going to go after the show, lift some weights, and then get on the Peloton. See my friend, live, learn, love well. I'm going to work out, get a little sweat going, get the blood pumping, increase that heart rate. That won't be the only thing rising. Over the weekend, Star Wars, The Rise of Skywalker. That's what I'm talking about. What were you thinking?
JVL00:14:48That was genius.
Vic00:14:50The Rise of Skywalker.
JVL00:14:51A work of genius.
Vic00:14:53Uploaded at the box office, I think, with an estimated $175.5 million. Followed by Jumanji, the next level, with $26 million. And in third place, Frozen 2, with $12.3 million. And in fourth place, let's not forget Cats, with $6.5 million. Cats.
Sonny00:15:13Can we talk about Cats? Can we do a Cats show? I actually kind of want to do a Cats show now.
Vic00:15:17Yeah, but did you see Cats?
Sonny00:15:19I have not seen Cats. I kind of want to go see it after hearing so much about it.
JVL00:15:24Because I have to say, the Gene review of Cats will be unflipping believable.
Vic00:15:30Cats! Oh! Cats was catatonic at the box office. Will it do better overseas? Perhaps. Per. On the other hand, Rebel Wilson was hysterical. Hysterical. Taylor Swift was unforgettable as Bombalerina. She had me rum-tum-tugging. And then there was Rumpelteaser. I stored her in my memory. Memory. As the penguin said to the cat. Wait, I don't get that one. The song.
JVL00:16:09Memory.
Vic00:16:10Oh, is that a song from Cats? I love that. Yes, excuse me. I'm not done yet. As the penguin said to the cat woman, she was just the pussy I was looking for. But not inside my cavity, I said. My cavity? Are you kidding me? I give cats two stars. Two stars? It's not even enough to give one paws. Get me out of here.
Sonny00:16:40Happy Hanukkah, Gene. Bye, Gene. All right. Seriously, though, we do need to go see it. Mr. Mistoffelees.
Vic00:16:48Mr. Magical Mr. Mistoffelees. okay question question Jonathan I think I think I talked about it with maybe I did it with Sonny but I'm gonna ask him and you have to tell the truth have you ever been in a in a production of cats no okay I thought have you seen cats yes yes okay in New York or like a high school production or something else I think I saw a movie version
JVL00:17:11haven't there hasn't there been other I can't
Vic00:17:13imagine a high school predict I imagine that the make would be too much
JVL00:17:17I don't think high schools do cats. Also, it's a terrible, terrible show.
Vic00:17:21I saw it at the Winter Garden Theater when I was young with, I'm sure, my mother, who would want to see this, and maybe my sister. The seats were terrible. We were so in the bed, because you know how you wait in line in Broadway for the tickets, and we got the tickets, and it's like you could touch the ceiling, you know, because it goes up. And the Winter Garden, I think, is just around the corner, I think, from the plaza. It was there. In my mind, it was there. It was terrible.
JVL00:17:49I mean, it's not for me.
Vic00:17:49It's not my cup of tea. It's not my cup of tea.
JVL00:17:51You can't understand 1970s America without taking stock of a chorus line and cats. Which I believe were the two longest running shows in Broadway history or something. Yeah, sure. And these shows are such dog crap. And yet, if I had told you, hey, guess what the Broadway of the 1970s looks like, you would have guessed those two shows. Yeah, that's right. Right? That's right.
Vic00:18:21That's right. Yeah.
Sonny00:18:22How is, I don't understand. You had questions. I've never actually been to a Broadway musical because I don't hate myself. You'll have to bring your daughter there. How is Cats any different from any other Broadway musical?
Vic00:18:34Well, number one, the story. And, I mean, it's T.S. Eliot, I guess.
Sonny00:18:38I mean, but I did not find it compelling. My understanding of Broadway is that it is basically nothing but, like, Disney movie live productions. Can you hear that?
Vic00:18:48Sonny, can you hear that? That's John Podhortz yelling at the podcast right now, okay? I mean, I...
JVL00:18:54Like Tenet. It is a thing that is happening in the future, and we can hear him in the present. Let's talk about that after, Kat.
Vic00:19:00I mean, I don't have anything to say about Kat, but I do actually kind of want to see it.
JVL00:19:05If you like the songs...
Sonny00:19:06Just because it sounds like such a horrible disaster.
Vic00:19:08I want to see it, but Victorino. God's honest to you. There are some musicals. I'm not afraid to admit. I am a little afraid to admit it, but I'll admit there are certain musicals I think are pretty good or pretty fun. Sweeney Todd. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sweeney Todd is a great show. I saw Sweeney Todd.
Sonny00:19:27I saw the movie version of Sweeney Todd. The Broadway version of Sweeney Todd is great. Johnny Depp can't sing. Well, that's a problem. I mean, it was a real problem.
Vic00:19:36okay i was gonna say guys and dolls anything goes you know those are great uh and uh there's there's tap dancing and there's a scene where they go to cuba and havana funny you know he's trying to wicked the modern i haven't seen the modern stuff uh anyway but that sort of tradition not to be too hard to be um um you know uh what's the springtime um you know um producers the producers thank you i'm really losing my mind uh i like that too that was fantastic so uh yeah
Sonny00:20:10there are ones that i like and funny i i mean i again i understand i understand like plays on broadway that are like plays i just don't i've never understood the whole musical thing musical theater i find so even this is this is a true story so you're killing john when i i know well no no it just it just has never i i don't get it and i i don't get it to the point that i went to go see the book of mormon the which everybody loves which everybody loves and which is by the south park guys so it's right in like the mainstream of humor that i like it's like kind of it's like kind of mean-spirited but also not really um and i i got i got tickets for my birthday to see it at the kennedy center and i was real excited and i went there and i was miserable the whole time what i just don't i do not get musical theater i don't get it if you like the music if you like the song maybe you don't like the song but this is this is the part this is part of the problem with me is that i i have trouble understanding lyrics while they're being sung for the first time i don't know it's like a weird it's almost a medical condition with me i like i i can't i can't make out what people are singing if they're singing okay well let me tell
Vic00:21:19you something do not watch opera i'm gonna tell you right now no i well no i well obviously i'm
Sonny00:21:23never gonna go to i've been to an opera i've been to the vienna opera house it was you know and i I just did... To see Turandot? Did nothing for me. My place... The Prague Opera House. What did you see at the Vienna Opera House? I can't remember.
JVL00:21:35Oh, that's such a shame. Many years ago. I saw like a dozen operas there when I lived there. See, the problem is, Sonny, you went to see Book of Mormon at the Kennedy Center here in Washington. If you'd gone up to Broadway, then you could have had the smell of urine everywhere and you could have gotten a slice at Sparrow. Yes, I could have gotten...
Sonny00:21:53Beforehand, and the whole gestalt of the experience would have been just way better. Yeah. Or the pizza place in Union Station, the number one pizza place in New York City.
Vic00:22:02There was a play recently with – it was called Lobby Hero, and it was very popular. I wanted to see it. I was not able to get tickets for it, and it's about the guy who works at the lobby of an apartment building, and he's in love with this cop, and she shows up there, and she's in love with her partner. The partner is played by Chris Evans, and he plays like sort of this jerk, macho cop who is always going upstairs to make visits to this woman. And the lobby hero, I think, was played by Michael Cera. And I thought it was very sort of interesting. That would have been fun to see. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. I could be completely wrong about this cast, but I got that much. This has gone off the rails. This is really something.
Sonny00:22:49Okay, Kat. You want to talk about Tenet? Actually, the cop is played by Eddie Murphy. You want to talk about Tenet, the Tenet trailer? I did. I want to talk about the Tenet trailer.
Vic00:22:57Yet again, Chris Nolan or Jonathan Nolan, my fellow Hoya, Jonathan Nolan, sorry, obsessed with time. Obsessed with time. So here we have another time. And I have no issue with this, although I'm just scared because I'm sure in the quadrant, the plot is going to score an F or a D for me. I'll be like, what is happening?
Sonny00:23:18It is interesting. mean if you look at if you look at uh his non-batman movies they are all very intricate structural pieces uh going all the way back to his first film which is basically a student film that he got some money to finish called following is a uh it is a it's a story kind of within a story within a story um and that that nesting doll instinct has has shown up again kind of throughout his his work you see it of course in memento and then also uh inception um i i it was very awkward for me because i saw the trailer on an airplane um and even in the low quality even the low quality streaming of it uh while i was watching it was enough to uh uh cause a physical reaction within me that made it uncomfortable for the people next to me and to the side they're like sir what's going on are you okay do you you you need some help over
Vic00:24:16i'm done i'm definitely seeing that's very exciting jonathan doesn't it just look your
JVL00:24:23thoughts you know what it is after the year we've had at the movies having seeing something that looks fresh and new somebody who has decided you know what i i'm just going to tell a story that hasn't been told before is like riveting and i i just i'm rooting so hard feel that way with hobbs and shaw i you know the truth is i didn't i know it was a new thing i know it was not fast and furious it's the fan and furious fast and furious expanded universe man alive it just
Vic00:24:56looked everything about it looks great there is as soon as i see syncope i'm like oh here we go
Sonny00:25:01there is because then you know there there is no filmmaker who is working at the same level he is in terms of budget and original storytelling. And look, this is a commentary on the movie industry as much as anything else. I'm sure there are other directors who wish they could get $160 million to hire Robert Pattinson and Denzel's kid, John David Washington. He's Denzel's kid? Yeah.
JVL00:25:35I didn't know that. Is Denzel 80 years old?
Sonny00:25:38Yes. He's in his 60s. Good Lord. Yeah. But to make an effects-heavy original story like this. I mean, he is sui generis at this point.
JVL00:25:54What do you think Chris Nolan's reaction would be if Netflix came to him and said, we would give you $200 million to make whatever movie you want? Do you think Christopher Nolan would say, great, thanks? Or would Christopher Nolan tell them to sit and spin? Because I think it's a lot of money.
Sonny00:26:11I mean, it would kind of depend, I guess.
JVL00:26:16Here's the other thing. My one disappointment with it is that the final title card at the end, it says you can see it in 35mm, 70mm, or IMAX. For some reason, there was nothing about 3D. Yes. And I don't know if I really want to see Tenet if I can't see it in 3D.
Sonny00:26:34This is true. This is true. If you can't see it in 3D, can you really be said to have seen it at all?
JVL00:26:40No. Aladdin in 3D was amazing. Do you think the 70 or the IMAX is the preferred format to see it?
Sonny00:26:47Well, I think the 70 millimeter or 65 millimeter IMAX or whatever, right? There are like 20 theaters in the country that play like 65 millimeter IMAX still. That would probably be the projected onto the side of the moon from an asteroid. From an asteroid that is, you know.
JVL00:27:03Anybody who hasn't seen the trailer should run it and watch it right now.
Sonny00:27:06I'm so excited for this. Literally, the thing I tweeted out was like, all right, here's a trailer for the best movie of 2020. Because it's the only thing I look forward to anymore.
Vic00:27:17There were two other...
JVL00:27:19Hit me so I can feel something.
Vic00:27:20There were two trailers before Star Wars that I thought were good. Well, I missed the James Bond trailer because I was getting drinks for the family. But the only two ones that I thought were good, not counting that, were Wonder Woman. I will admit it. I thought that was good. I didn't get a Wonder Woman trailer. Oh, I got a Wonder Woman trailer. I got a Wonder Woman trailer. You know why? Because they're usually, it's retro. It's like Stranger Things. It's the new order. It's Stranger Things.
Sonny00:27:46It's totally Stranger Things, Wonder Woman. The mall. I have to say, this movie.
Vic00:27:49And Blue Monday, which is, what is Blue Monday? Is that Depeche Mode, JVL?
Sonny00:27:53No, Blue Monday is the band. Or was it New Order? I think it's, yeah, New Order or Depeche. New Order maybe. think it's new order i think right now my best friend chris is screaming i know i know i thought
Vic00:28:03you knew but i thought this is your new order but it's definitely blue monday it's definitely
Sonny00:28:07what was monday who who who remade blue monday in like 2000 kate bush i don't know i don't know i'm just saying that to make chris scream more uh hi chris i am christmas i am very i am very i the problem the problem with the wonder woman trailer is that it uh it is that it looks like they are making stranger things wonder woman yeah from the shot in the mall like coming down she's so beautiful though she's very nice she's beautiful i'm a big fan you have to do anything and then the other one was top gun did you see it on trailer did you guys it's because you know why because there's no cgi right he's flying the plane tom cruise is flying the plane did you guys see it in imax uh no no no no no i saw it no uh so i uh i have seen that trailer in imax and it is the loudest thing i've ever heard in my it's like you're there i've it's like i i don't know if you've ever been subjected to a flyover at like 50 feet that happened to me once in when i lived in england my my father was a pilot did a did a flyover at about 100 feet and it's it's incredibly it's like terrifyingly loud question what was he flying uh it was a cessna it was a c-130 cargo transport the big one the hercules it was very loud it's very exciting very very loud it's very cool but uh i mean and i guess fighter jets are different because it's you know the jets versus the props but like it but nevertheless but that that trailer is what that reminded me of just
JVL00:29:32the like soul shatteringly loud is val kilmer in this movie i hope so what is tom cruise flying in the flyover shot it's an experimental plane of oh that one in the end it looked like i honestly
Vic00:29:46it looked like an f-117 the original stealth fighter before the i have i have no idea like I have no idea.
JVL00:29:53An F-19?
Vic00:29:55There was an F-17 Cobra, but that never made it into production. And the F-20 Tiger Shark, which was a boondock that failed. We're not here to talk about planes. Sorry, I'm getting too excited.
JVL00:30:06The first Top Gun Maverick trailer looked like they were recreating the original Top Gun trailer, but with updated scenes. This made it look like it is its own story.
Vic00:30:17Oh, and what's his name is in it? The kid from Whiplash, right? Miles Teller. Oh does he play the son
Sonny00:30:24Not Tom Cruise's son I think maybe Miles Teller is an interesting case Because he has kind of Disappeared except for
Vic00:30:34He's been trying hard but the stuff is not getting He played a boxer I didn't even see that movie in the theater
Sonny00:30:40So this is now the second movie he's made With John Kaczynski He did the Granite Mountain What was it The firefighting movie Firejumper movie that had a terrible terrible name I'll look it up real quick but he I thought he was going to be
Vic00:31:00the next big thing and kind of yeah certainly after Whiplash because he puts like everything into it but so okay so yeah and then there was a and then but the end of the last two or three trailers before Star Wars were all no I didn't get they're all Disney they're all Disney including Mulan
Sonny00:31:20I'm sorry, Joseph Kaczynski, who directed Only the Brave, which was the Josh Brolin movie about the Granite Mountain Hot Shots.
JVL00:31:30The Mulan movie looks so great.
Sonny00:31:32It actually does look kind of good, doesn't it?
JVL00:31:34Yeah, you know why? Because Mulan is the best of all the Disney princesses.
Sonny00:31:37You know, I've never actually seen the animated movie.
JVL00:31:40It's 1A and 1B.
Vic00:31:43The other one was this Disney Pixar movie that I had zero interest in seeing. They look like elves and like the father is like only his pants. What's happening? All right.
Sonny00:31:53Can we move on to the box office? Yes, let's talk about it. Because it's 1045. Now we've been jabbering about.
Vic00:31:56I got to work out.
JVL00:31:57We've been jabbering about trailers for only five minutes. It's practically Christmas Day. Emma is waiting for you. We don't want to keep Emma waiting.
Vic00:32:04175.5. That's a lot of money. We're not.
JVL00:32:07What do we think the odds are that that gets revised down on Tuesday, Sonny?
Sonny00:32:10Well, this is, so this is the Disney estimate, 175.5, which is under the industry estimate, which is at $179, I think. So Disney is low-balling the industry estimate. I think it's entirely possible. Look, the interesting thing here is not that it opened at $175, though that is interesting. The interesting thing here is that the initial projections after Thursday's screenings were revised down throughout the weekend. So the initial projections after the Thursday night screenings was something like between $44 and $48 million on Thursday. And instead, it grossed $40 million on Thursday. That was sign one that something was amiss. Sign two that something was amiss was that the projections off of that $40 million with the, you know, pre-sales and all that was something like $193 million for the three-day weekend. $193 million. And I was like, OK, that's below 200 million, but it's still it's still like reasonable. It's still fine. And then that number got revised down on Sunday morning to 179. So and Disney itself is again saying 175. So it is the interesting thing here is not necessarily the gross. It's the fact that the the numbers were continually revised down throughout the weekend, which suggests very weak word of mouth. And that is backed up by the CinemaScore, which was a very soft B+, if I remember correctly. I'm just looking it up right now.
JVL00:33:51First time in history that a Star Wars movie has gone under A-, I believe.
Sonny00:33:55B+, yeah. So the sequels, I'm sorry, the prequels all got A-, each one got an A-. The sequels so far have each gotten A's. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi both got A's. And this has got a B plus. And that is a bad figure for a movie like this. May I posit a theory to you?
JVL00:34:19Yes, please. I believe that the cinema score for The Rise of Skywalker is a direct result of The Last Jedi. I believe that The Last Jedi was such a piece of dog crap. that it altered people's permission structures. They just thought, hey, we have to just say we like. And so they came out of Jedi and they said, yeah, we like it, sure, A. And then as they reflected on it over the course of the last year or so, they came to hate it so much that they realized it was okay to say you didn't like a Star Wars movie. And then as a result of punishing the follower.
Vic00:34:58We talked about this with Solo.
JVL00:35:00Again, just changing the permission structure to be able to say, I don't like a Star Wars movie. Didn't Solo came out after Last Jedi? It did, and it was punished for the sins of The Last Jedi.
Sonny00:35:11Even Solo, though, got an A-. It did. Even Solo got an A-. It ended up itself. And Rogue One got an A.
Vic00:35:19Oh, I give A-plus to Rogue One.
Sonny00:35:21I don't know. It's a very interesting result. And I do think... So here's, I think, what is actually... Here's what I think is actually happening with the Rise of Skywalker scores is that the people who loved The Last Jedi and there were a lot of people who really loved The Last Jedi who thought it was really good saw this movie and we'll get to this in a minute but they saw this movie which is essentially a direct sequel to The Force Awakens that not only retcons basically everything that happened in The Last Jedi out of the canon but like explicitly repudiates and apologizes for portions of it. They came out of this movie and they were flabbergasted that somebody would take their toys and break it. And their toxic fandom for The Last Jedi led them to punish this movie and led them to get angry at the filmmakers and say they should be pursued violently and struck down.
JVL00:36:16She's your greatest troll ever.
Sonny00:36:18I'm sorry, the toxic fans, The Last Jedi's toxic fans are a real problem that we need to confront as a cinematic community.
JVL00:36:28Thank you. When Rogue One came out, it opened to $155 million, and there was a lot of chin-tucking about, boy, this isn't good. No.
Sonny00:36:39The idea was, oh, it's just, look.
JVL00:36:41Rogue One? Yes. The idea was it was not a Star Wars saga movie. We're just going to have to expect lower openings for the Star Wars stories.
Sonny00:36:49No, but I think people expected that movie to open lower, and when it got to a billion dollars, I think people were surprised at how much it grossed.
JVL00:36:57Yes, but with the opening, the idea was the sagas open higher, the Star Wars stories open lower. The problem is that they're now converging, right? I mean, this is so 175 is pretty close to 155. No, they're all just dropping.
Sonny00:37:13Or that. That's the other way of looking at it. Solo opened at half of Rogue One's numbers.
JVL00:37:18Who gets blamed, J.J. or Kathleen Kennedy?
Sonny00:37:24Because I think, like you do, I think this thing barely makes it to $500 million. If it makes it to $500 million domestic, I would be a little bit surprised.
JVL00:37:34And it's possible it could really not get close to that.
Sonny00:37:37We'll see what it does. I'm really curious to see what the second weekend numbers look like. Because in theory, the hold should be relatively strong because everybody's on break, blah, blah, blah. And if it drops 60%, it's entirely possible.
JVL00:37:52So who gets blamed?
Sonny00:37:54You have to blame Kathleen Kennedy for this whole rigmarole. Because here is the simple fact of the matter. The whole plan for this was dumb as hell from the beginning. It was incredibly effing stupid. The idea that you were going to treat it like an Upright Citizens Brigade sketch, where people are handing off the story to each other and continuing it from director to director and writer to writer, Instead of just having a person at the top who says, it doesn't have to be the same director for each of these movies. The original trilogy did not have the same director for each of its movies. But you needed to have somebody at the top saying, here is the story we are telling. Here's the story we're telling, and these are the beats you need to hit. However you want to get there, you can get there. But what you have to do is make it from point A to point B to point C over the course of these three movies. And the fact that they clearly had nobody doing that, that they were making it up as they went along and not in. Look, and I'm like very sympathetic to the people who are like George Lucas was making it up as he went along. He didn't have any idea that Luke and Leo would be sisters and the whole I'm your father thing. That was just, you know, that was that was like fine. But you still had kind of a vision there. You still had a single person who was mapping it out in his head as he went. And here you have two filmmakers who are not only not in sync, they're actively opposed to each other. I mean, they're actively opposed to each other. J.J. Abrams makes a movie. In the first 20 minutes of Rian Johnson's movie, he destroys everything from that film. The mask and everything. I mean, literally, literally destroys it with the mask and all that. And then you get back to the third movie, and it's the first guy again. He's like, no, wait, actually, all that stuff I did was good, and we're going to start here. So what you wind up with, and I'll just start my big boy review now. What you wind up with with The Rise of Skywalker is a direct sequel to The Force Awakens. It is you with the exception of one or two scenes, the Luke Force ghost scene and maybe some other stuff. And one or two very minor references like the the Holdo maneuver, you know, is mentioned at some point. They're like, ah, that was a one in a million shot. We're never we're never doing that again. You you could have you could have you could watch this movie directly after The Force Awakens and not have lost much of anything. And that's a real problem. That's a real problem because what you end up having in The Rise of Skywalker is a movie that is two movies in one. This should have been two movies. The second movie in this trilogy should have been hints of Palpatine's return and Ben Solo trying to find him and figuring out what his deal is and blah, blah, blah. And then Rey doing the training with Luke and figuring all that stuff out. And then you have like a random adventure with Finn and Poe who actually have chemistry together and are pleasant to watch on screen. And instead, you get all of that stuff jammed into a two and a half hour extended double movie of sorts. I have to say, coming out of The Rise of Skywalker, I did not care for it that much. I thought there was too much going on. i thought parts of it were silly like the sith planet and the sith chorus i was like what is all of this what is what is happening here no i mean it really felt it felt like it death lock death
Vic00:41:14lock death lock you guys see me i'm raising my fist thank you jvl uh and lysis lysis that was
Sonny00:41:21the general and and but but there was also a lot of as as i was sitting there reflecting on it more And once I realized what J.J. Abrams had done, that he had just totally ignored The Last Jedi and continued his own story, I was like, okay, well, this is the best he could do with what he was given. Parts of it are very good. This is the only time you'll ever hear me say this. I found C-3PO's comic relief incredibly amusing in this movie. I thought that was actually the best part about it. It was the throwback to C-3PO being kind of a goofy droid.
Vic00:41:59And then meeting people, quote, for the first time. Was that Anthony Daniels or did Anthony Daniels die? I can't remember. No, he's still alive. Okay, so he was in there?
Sonny00:42:07Yeah, I think Dave Prowse died. Yeah, Peter Mayhew died. Peter Mayhew died. I mean, we're losing them. People are dropping laughter. Of course, Carrie Fisher, who... Oh, I had a question.
Vic00:42:18I had a question. Because of that, what did you think about CGI Carrie Fisher in this movie?
Sonny00:42:22It wasn't entirely clear to me what exactly was going on there, how much of it... So the filmmakers... She was better than Carrie Fisher from Force Awakens. The filmmakers... Or it was CGI 2. The filmmakers... No, no, no, no. Yeah. She died after filming The Last Jedi. She died while The Last Jedi was in post-production. Oh. So the rise of Skywalker, I am not 100% sure what was going on with the physical presence of Carrie Fisher. The filmmakers insist that she recorded all of those lines at various points. And I got a very, do you remember the episode of The Simpsons where they make the Radioactive Man movie? Yes, and then the clip at the end. And they're trying to edit, they're trying to edit. Because Milhouse left. Because Milhouse, he's left the film, and they try to edit it all together. And that's kind of what it felt like at times, was like they were clearly like pulling composite shots or something together. And it's all very weird. and i felt vaguely uncomfortable watching it in the theater i was like this is bad they shouldn't have done this um but whatever uh i don't know man i i think j.j abrams did the best with what he had i found the stuff with ben solo slash kylo ren to be affecting and moving uh i have always thought that the only thing that has worked in this whole trilogy is the uh kylo ray luke stuff and that paid off here i thought pretty well i don't know that's my thought we should we should
JVL00:43:46specify that this is going to be spoiler filled from now on. So if you
Vic00:43:50care about those things.
JVL00:43:52Victorino, what did you think?
Vic00:43:55I gave it a B+. It's funny. I didn't know that that was cinema score.
JVL00:43:58Man of the people.
Vic00:44:00I really didn't know. Or I don't remember that you had mentioned this before. So I give it a B+. Obviously the duration was too long. The plot's serviceable. I mean, I get it. I wasn't confused, but I mean, it was kind of... You weren't confused i was not confused uh and i have a question the violence was pretty good with the
JVL00:44:19lightsabers i mean he they're they're killing people yeah you were not confused when i mean i mean there were just things i accepted you know so when kylo shows up on top of the crashed death star to have his battle with ray yes did you realize that that was the real kylo who had landed in a ship or did you think that that was the force projection Kylo because I was convinced that that was force projection Kylo because I thought he was up in his command ship looking down at her and only at the end when she jumped into the Kylo ship was I like wait what he was really here
Vic00:45:00my default assumption is that he's always there his presence is there it's almost like the power to
Sonny00:45:09teleport she has the power to heal well this is interesting yeah they introduce a lot of force powers over these these last two movies uh that that i'm not a hundred percent sure i'm i'm
Vic00:45:20on board with but uh but other than that i mean it's i feel like they beat me over the head with various messaging messaging effects like what the lesbian kiss at the end you you weren't into that
Sonny00:45:33i feel i feel like that would be a big check on the quadrant was not i'm not even going to say
JVL00:45:37anything i don't want to offend the only thing the 13 the only thing the 13 year old version of me ever thought that star wars lacked was that was girls kissing yeah but uh her that woman okay so
Vic00:45:47i just so it wasn't hot enough no that's that was my issue uh the uh and the other thing is it's like oh the diversity of ships have arrived you know what it's kind of like as kate said it was
Sonny00:45:59like dunkirk with spaceships but i did i did appreciate that jj abrams put a death star on
Vic00:46:03every star destroyer yeah you know i want to talk about that in a minute and somehow they were all defeated and uh so again uh b plus i will tell you uh uh i like daisy ridley i'm not afraid to say that i like looking at her on the big screen she's very pretty i find her very attractive okay okay i'm i'm just saying i was what did you i have questions i have questions how did the kids
Sonny00:46:30How did the kids take it, the movie? Did they like it?
Vic00:46:36My son was disappointed that Palpatine died and was defeated because he always roots for the Empire or now the final.
Sonny00:46:45Well, to be fair, the Palpatine bloodline has finally triumphed over the Skywalker bloodline in this movie.
Vic00:46:51That's exactly true. That's right.
Sonny00:46:52Also, when did Palpatine have a kid?
Vic00:46:55Yeah, so when he was a chancellor, before he turned bad. He was already like 85 million years old. You want to hear something crazy? You want to hear something crazy? Ian McDermott is 75. In Return of the Jedi, he was 39.
JVL00:47:09Younger than you are now.
Vic00:47:10Younger than I am now. Okay, that makes no sense. He's only two years older than me. Yeah, think about that. So that was crazy. What did you think about General Hux is a spy? The most ludicrous plot twist ever. And you knew it was going to happen. Even I knew it. Even I knew that you were going to see flashes of laser and that he would kill me.
Sonny00:47:31I knew it. Somebody on Twitter was like, you know what General Huck says? He's a stand-in for Rian Johnson.
JVL00:47:36Yes. No, I totally agree. I mean, so I think that you can view these entire sequel trilogy as J.J. fighting back first against Lucas and then against Rian Johnson. So Iger says in his new book that Lucas had very detailed proposals for what should be done and that Iger basically hoodwinked him. They made we would consider this and have you as a consultant as part of the conditions of the sale. But he had no intention of using Lucas's material and Lucas was really off about it. But J.J. was in and J.J. knew what he wanted. And this, choosing to make these movies a soft reboot of the original trilogy is a rejection of the prequels. And then, so it's like, you know, I'm getting back at old man Lucas for ruining my childhood. And then he does Force Awakens and Rian Johnson does The Last Jedi. And then everything in this movie is such, I have never seen one filmmaker pushing back against another on film in the way this is done i have a list certainly certainly
Sonny00:48:55not within the same franchise certainly not as a direct sequel right i mean into the previous
JVL00:49:01putting the kylo mask together when daisy ridley ray throws the lightsaber and force ghost luke catches it and says show some respect yeah what are you doing the the let's try the holdo maneuver and then somebody else dismissively says, no, that's stupid. It's a one in a million shot. Rose barely existing. She had to stay and watch the computer. The romantic arc with Finn, not only not being consummated, but Finn being put back onto his Ray crush.
Sonny00:49:31Back onto his Ray crush and then given somebody who he actually has like some chemistry with. That other actress is so much better.
JVL00:49:39Ray becoming a Palpatine after going through the whole arc about finding out how she's...
Sonny00:49:45A Palpatine and then a Skywalker, too. It's like every fan theory.
JVL00:49:49Rey finding the crucial information about the Sith Wayfinder in the Jedi texts, which were deemed so unimportant that we had to set them on fire. The Resistance suddenly having hundreds of people in ships and bases after being whittled down to two dozen people total. Then Kylo asking the Emperor, what about Snoke? And the Emperor's like, shut your whore mouth. I was Snoke, right? He says that because I was Snoke. Really? There are no golden dice anywhere. That's true. The whole thing is, Jay, I've never seen anything like it.
Sonny00:50:20It was, again, this is why I was kind of confused while I was watching it in the theater. Because it is an explicit repudiation of everything that happened in the previous movie. Honestly, so again, this is all Kathleen Kennedy's fault. Everything that has happened here.
JVL00:50:39Oh, because she's a woman?
Sonny00:50:40Yeah, exactly. Well, look, I just want her to get promoted so she can, you know, start her own thing and, you know, have her own strong women in film. She needs to have her own label so she can do her own. But you cannot put together a series and a franchise like this and wing it. It is not Fast and Furious. It is not James Bond even. There is an overarching story and mythos here that you have to respect if you want it to be a Star Wars movie. I'm sorry. And maybe this is just, again, maybe this is a function of the limited nature of Star Wars qua Star Wars. That it is a small universe that only really matters if you're paying attention to the central characters within it. And, you know, it is not interesting enough to build out into its own thing. Now, I think The Mandalorian undercuts that somewhat because that's pretty good. I think everyone here likes The Mandalorian. The last couple episodes have been excellent, too. But Rogue One is still essentially working within the original trilogy. It is the story of how they got the Death Star plans. It's a very enjoyable movie. But it – and the best part of it, of course, was the last two minutes with Darth Vader. But the – but, you know, I just – I think I – there's – the way these movies have come out is like corporate malfeasance almost. And I don't see how you can lay the blame for that at anyone's feet aside from Kathleen Kennedy. She's in charge. She's the one who is in charge and trying to turn this into a forever franchise. And she has botched it.
Vic00:52:19I still have more questions. Oh, I want to hear them. Question. The training scene with Luke and Leia, when is that supposed to take place? Is it after Return of the Jedi? Because she looked very young. Is that supposed to be? But her CGI'd face, she looks like she was 18 in that one. Okay. Just saying. I didn't even realize that was supposed to be young Luke Skywalker. The de-aging was very, very bad.
JVL00:52:43Leia became a Jedi Master at some point and had her own lightsaber. Yeah, I know.
Vic00:52:46Like, when was this? Seems like important information. I did appreciate, I liked seeing Harrison Ford. I thought that was a very poignant scene with him and his son.
Sonny00:52:55Was he a Force ghost, though? But no, he's just in Kylo's head, I guess.
Vic00:53:00I don't know. okay so with the death star on the planet the ocean planet right you think that's right is that endor yes so that's where it cracks it crashed right as it sank the the chunk of death star then crashes not to the far moon but to actually endure and that's where they go to i guess because it's not and the far moon of endor is all trees and forest as we see in the i guess the ewoks but this is endor itself so i assume that that was that okay um oh that's all my oh yeah did you
Sonny00:53:30like carrie russell i didn't the rocketeer yeah yes i was a rocketeer i wasn't a hundred percent
JVL00:53:37sure what the point of her character was i wanted to take off the mask there was no point of her character as there is no point for most of the characters in this i cameo so i have a bunch of questions too but first i would like to say that it is now settled science that ray is a mary sue so she has now figured out how to use the force to stop death and heal people something we have never seen any other Jedi ever do. Kind of amazing. How would she even know that she could do that? Has she heard the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise? She beats Palpatine on her own in like two minutes. She doesn't even do anything special. She just like overpowers him with the second lightsaber. She's like, yeah, but I'm, you know. She's got two. She's like John Cena. But she doesn't absorb
Vic00:54:20the Sith because she just reflects his power against himself. But my favorite
JVL00:54:24thing about them, my favorite mary sue moment is when they get to endor and it's like this water planet with the 5 000 foot waves and she's like i gotta get out there to the death star and the people who live on the water planet are like we can't right now it's too dangerous we gotta wait for first light when the water will be calmer and ray is like you know i grew up on a planet full of sand that was a desert but i bet i could figure out this ocean airing stuff and so she hops onto a boat and manages to sail herself totally fine. She goes full Moana. Straight on out with no problems. There's nothing to overcome. There's no like well the boat tips and then she's got to like force jump her way out. Just like I got this. There is nothing she
Vic00:55:08can't do. Yes. That's right. For all three
JVL00:55:10movies now she has not had a single
Vic00:55:12challenge. All I can think about when I saw the giant wave is every minute that goes by is about 50 years.
JVL00:55:20She better hurry up. Time's wasted. all right so can i can i ask can i can i do some nerd gripes yes because the weird thing is i actually we're here for one thing i actually liked this yeah you did you texted us you've been you've
Sonny00:55:34been very negative so far considering that you said that you you like the movie and i agree of
JVL00:55:39the three i should be clear when i say i like it i don't mean that i actually liked it but of the three of force awakens and last jedi i liked this the most and because sunny something you said actually the only thing anybody should care about in these movies is the relationship between kylo and ray and i thought this movie stuck the landing on their relationship yes and so i i was first of all shocked that's true that it it got the ending of their relationship right and especially in light of there seeming to be a big online backlash against the way kylo dies i i i i have not really
Sonny00:56:19paid that much attention people seem to be very angry on the internet about the manner in which
JVL00:56:22you mean like ben kenobi style yeah and i just i don't know i so that was satisfying enough for me to walk out of i felt more satisfied walking out of this than any of the other two moves of the okay so okay i like that go ahead the millennium falcon light speed skipping invalidates everything that we know about hyperspace travel from the beginning of the entire series remember the moment when Hansel was like, it takes time to make the calculations to jump to light speed because if we do that, we're going to wind up plastered across an asteroid. Do you remember that? It was like an important plot device. And now they're like, you just jump to light speed, jump off. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sonny00:57:02Easily, very easily. But also can I just, one thing on this? Yeah. The amusing part of this light speed skipping thing was that they all skipped to the same place. They all skipped to the same place. I wondered about that too. They all skipped to the same place. I don't know where they're going. And as we know, space is like 99 point nine percent empty yeah always to another they kept skipping to like places filled with
JVL00:57:22stuff oh my god oh how did you like billy d williams i like billy d i thought he was a nice presence uh he's older so i understand being able to warp space using a hyperdrive to move faster than light but in in this for the first time in the star wars we have people with the ability to communicate with one another across a galaxy, which means they've made a way to make light travel faster than light. How does that work? Oh, it doesn't, right? Some of the other things we've always been told with the Sith, there are always two. Always two there are with the Sith. And now it turns out that there are thousands or millions of these hooded Sith worshippers hiding out on a planet.
Vic00:58:10Also, and they got all defeated. They had no powers of their own.
JVL00:58:13So here's what I started thinking about. So Hux says that they're going to get a fleet that is 10,000 times bigger than the First Order. Yes. Let's do some math. Where did the Sith workers get the materials for this? The semiconductors, the metal, the power cells. Do they have a supply chain for component parts?
Sonny00:58:34The Sith planet is basically the whole continent of Africa.
JVL00:58:37Did they have economy or currency that they used to trade with other people? who were making the parts or were they making everything themselves?
Vic00:58:45And how about the people who worked there? How did they find all these people to staff all the ships?
Sonny00:58:49How did they get the taxation on the trade routes lifted so they could do all of this? That's what I want to know.
JVL00:58:56So here's the deal. I sat with my calculator last night. Oh, no. Math. If we assume that the First Order has 100 ships, which I think is lowball. That's lowball. But let's just go with that. A 100 Star Destroyers? Yes. It looked like it. Okay. Let's just pretend. That means the Sith fleet has one million Star Destroyers. Yes. The total elapsed time from the end of Return of the Jedi to the end of Rise of the Skywalkers is about 50 years, give or take. That means that the Emperor and his Sith people have been building 20,000 Star Destroyers a year. Yes. That is 1,666 Star Destroyers a month. 55 Star Destroyers a day. Right. That is interesting. Here's a question. Question. You said a million?
Sonny00:59:43What did you get the million from?
JVL00:59:45What if they just have... 10,000 times the 100 ships that the First Order has.
Sonny00:59:48What if they just have the replicators from Star Wars?
JVL00:59:52Well, you do need the replicators? Yeah. A replicator that is a Star Destroyer-sized replicator? Yeah, just a replicator. A giant replicator gate that you just throw metal through and out the other side comes a Star Destroyer?
Sonny01:00:04No, it just gets elements from the space, from the vacuum of space.
JVL01:00:08Oh, that's interesting. How many veteran Final Order troops would you need to man this fleet?
Sonny01:00:15Well, this was actually a subplot in the movie, right? This is why they're going around kidnapping all of the children.
JVL01:00:19But I did the math.
Sonny01:00:20Okay.
JVL01:00:20Okay, so let's just... A 21st century Nimitz-class aircraft carrier. Sure. Smaller than a Star Destroyer. Much smaller. That requires a crew of 6,000 people.
Vic01:00:29Like the one from the final account, then.
JVL01:00:30But we're going to pretend that they have all sorts of automation and stuff. So let's just pretend that you can crew a Star Destroyer with 6,000 people. Okay. You've got a fleet of 1 million ships. That means you need 6 billion troops, all trained, all equipped, and all organized and ready to operate a fleet. Where do they come from? Where do they get their supplies? An aircraft carrier needs 400,000 gallons of water.
Vic01:00:52That means you need 400 billion gallons of water out on this.
JVL01:00:56Where did the water come from?
Vic01:00:58And they all died.
JVL01:01:00The technological advances you would need to take the same planet-killing power of a Death Star and shrink it to a keel-mounted cannon would be the type of technological advance that you can barely imagine. Which means that in addition to all of the workers and the supply chain and the logistics, the Sith had their own giant R&D department? I got news for you.
Vic01:01:24How did this happen? We have now passed the one-hour mark.
Sonny01:01:27Yeah, we got it.
JVL01:01:29All I'll say finally is that Poe, Finn, and Rose should not have been in any of these movies. All we needed were Kylo, Rey, Luke, Leia, and Han. Those are the only characters we needed.
Vic01:01:39That's very pod-like in his review.
JVL01:01:41Everybody else is a distraction. Who cares, as he says. I don't think anybody in the audience cares about anybody else other than those five characters.
Sonny01:01:48Again, I disagree slightly because I do think Poe and Finn are kind of fun together in a ramshackle buddy comedy sort of way. And I think those two actors are actually good together. The problem is that they're barely together at all in any of these movies. They're barely together in the first movie. They're not together at all in the second one. And their most time together on screen is in this movie for their 40 minutes of subplot.
JVL01:02:18Yeah, I think they barely have any chemistry. I hate them individually, and I hate them even more as characters together. That's interesting.
Vic01:02:26You know what we can't hate? Our sponsor.
JVL01:02:29Yes! If you're going to lean right, then Swag Right at SwagRight.com. Get your holiday swag for those you love and like this year. From Trump shirts, Swalwell whoopie cushions, and the Pocahontas pillow to fake news gear and more. And now Swag Right has just released its membership club subscription featuring a monthly wearable gift, drinkable mug, and many surprise gifts. All gifts are relevant to the news of the day. $24.99 a month or sign up for your annual club membership for the value of $19.99 a month and once you sign up you'll immediately get your President Trump coloring book his Promise Keeper shirt and my favorite the Washington Free Beacon Truth Monkey go to SwagRite.com now and check it all out
Vic01:03:17is Promise Keeper like the ring that you before you get married is that isn't that the same thing like people who you know like promise to be chased tell me more yeah you're supposed to wear a ring and you're supposed to be like oh i promised to be chased before marriage i i had this i had i had the same ring i said absolutely no before i got married you might have to bleep that one oh okay uh uh corrections i got a corrections this is well this is for the holiday okay corrections sunny bunch that was not a picture of martini says our friend john mccormick there there's photographic evidence it was like a glass mug There were also allegations. Are you writing something down?
Sonny01:03:59Yeah, I was just writing down the thing that we probably have to cut.
Vic01:04:02Oh, good. Thank you. There were also allegations that-
Sonny01:04:06That was a pitcher. It's a pitcher. It's a smaller pitcher, but it's still a pitcher.
Vic01:04:11It was like a little mug.
Sonny01:04:12I'm sorry. It's a glass container with a spout at the end that you have a handle on. That's a pitcher.
Vic01:04:16There were also allegations that I drank half a bottle of his Bombay Sapphire. That is also fake news. John said that particular bottle was only 750 milliliters. So I only had at most 375 milliliters.
Sonny01:04:31That's half a bottle.
Vic01:04:32It's 12.7 ounces.
Sonny01:04:35That's a lot of drinks.
Vic01:04:36That's hardly anything. And that is all the time we're giving to this episode for this year. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at Sunny Bunch at Victorina Mattis. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. Just type in SubBeacon under Podcasts. We're there. Leave a review, please. Tell your friends. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Until next time. What is happening? JVL, what are you doing?
JVL01:05:07It's time for Christmas presents.
Vic01:05:08Oh, my gosh.
JVL01:05:09Not for me, but from our friends. So we got a package from our buddy, Stephen Phillippe, who says, Dear Vic, Sonny, JVL, I have some things for you. Thank you for being such gracious hosts for the SSEU. Please let the show go on. He got for me a book called Mass Exodus, Catholic Disaffection with Vatican II. Wow. For you, Sonny, eyes wide shut, Stanley Kubrick in the making of his final film.
Sonny01:05:35Oh, very exciting.
JVL01:05:36And for you, Victorino, Hitler, a biography.
Vic01:05:39You know, this is funny. I think I was looking for this one. There's a global biography of Hitler that is very controversial. The author photo?
JVL01:05:50That guy looks like he's pro.
Vic01:05:52what's with the eyebrows he's a very angry man even handed biography you know what though
Sonny01:06:00it's no Jojo Rabbit
Vic01:06:03no it's not Jojo Rabbit thank you from my wife
JVL01:06:08for you Victorino
Vic01:06:10oh it feels heavy can I just open it right now early Christmas you can hear the sound effects oh my gosh whoa this is it is a bar yeah oh are you is shannon saying that i smell is that what the
Sonny01:06:29it says it's called introverts it's fine smells like pass oh smells like somebody's passive aggressive no really it's fine it's fine this one is called are these like are these individual
Vic01:06:41this one is called grammar police it says smells like your teen spirit smells like you're annoying and Sonny
JVL01:06:54this came for you but not from Shannon
Sonny01:06:57from Jesus maybe it's from Jesus what did Jesus send you Sonny it's some rosary beads are these Star Wars branded I can't tell rosary beads blessed by the Pope you know what just by the actual Pope
JVL01:07:16just just tuck them away by the actual Pope or Pope Francis or the
Sonny01:07:20fake Pope the fake Pope on his throne of lies see that movie just tuck them
JVL01:07:24away in a drawer just in case like in case of emergency break glass I have
Sonny01:07:28to say so the the sub beacon expanded universe has been very good to rebeller media.com using the promo code sub beacon two words sub beacon all caps I will say that they have not quite hit the 200 mark which is what Shannon what I told Shannon if we get to 200 that the next promo code will be RCIA which I think if we use means I become Catholic immediately I can't tell yes I can't actually tell what the deal is here I don't know what the theological implications of this are I assume Father Harrison can walk me through it but the first we have to throw holy
JVL01:08:02water on you to see if you burn
Sonny01:08:03no I've already done that it's like the scene in Devil's Advocate stings oh you boiled it you boiled it with your finger you know if that ever happens it would be like the greatest conversion since saul became paul merry christmas everybody hey sure it's fine
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