#61. Gladiator, Tombstone, and Rankings!
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Billed by JVL as "a show of rankings," this one centers on the 20th anniversary of Gladiator, and all three hosts turn out to be unabashed fans. Sonny calls himself "a total sucker" for it and the last great modern sword-and-sandal picture, recalling that it opened just as his college Roman history course was ending — his professor pronounced it absurd, then offered a bonus exam point for naming five historical inaccuracies, and Sonny listed about fifteen. He rewatched it on an early flipper DVD he had to turn over mid-movie ("What is this? The Dark Ages?"), which JVL diagnoses as "a medium problem," since the $19.99 ultra-high-def stream "looks like it came out yesterday" down to the scars on Tigris of Gaul's belly. JVL also defends Joaquin Phoenix's Commodus as one of the great heel turns in modern cinema, arguing the audience's pure hatred is what makes the final duel cathartic, while Sonny loves that the fight comes down to Commodus simply being physically weaker than Maximus. Vic's favorite sequences are the beheading right before "Are you not entertained?" and the Punic Wars chariot recreation; JVL's is the German gladiator swinging his dead partner's severed hand on a chain. Then the rankings pile up: JVL grades gladiator weapons one through ten (short sword and shield first, a rock at eight, a puppy at nine, trident and net dead last because "the guy with the trident and the net dies first every fucking time"), Sonny ranks Ridley Scott with Blade Runner first and The Counselor fifth, and Vic's Russell Crowe list crowns Gladiator while omitting Master and Commander, a brain fart he'll hear about from every listener. Earlier, Sonny plugs Tombstone Week at Rebeller Media — built around a first-person piece he coaxed out of Michael Biehn, plus a Stephen Lang interview — and argues Tombstone is the best modern Western, better than Unforgiven. He and JVL also mourn the disappearance of box-office data now that Universal will only say Trolls World Tour is its "greatest performing VOD release of all time" with no actual numbers, JVL insisting most Americans have already seen their last movie in a theater. Also: JVL ranks his priest friends' streamed Holy Week services (they all tie for first), Vic sends around a photo of an Axis and Allies board where Japanese armor has reached Africa, and Vic's Critics' Corner gives Trolls World Tour three stars — "can't stop the feeling that I just watched one long music video."
From the show notes
#cdata-section -------------- In this latest episode we discuss the 20th anniversary of Gladiator . Could it be Ridley Scott's best movie,...
Full transcript
Vic00:00:00Hello and welcome to another edition of The Sub-Beacon. I'm Victor Matus along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last. Just a reminder, The Sub-Beacon is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. Look on our podcast, search for Sub-Beacon. You'll easily find us. Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Gentlemen, how are we? JVL, happy Easter. Happy Easter. He is risen. And I'm not talking about Sonny. So, uh... What is going on?
JVL00:00:45This is going to be a show of rankings. Oh, okay. I believe that we are going to rank, I don't know, like seven or eight different things. Oh, man. And so, I want to start out with my own ranking. Oh, wow. Right from the gate. Right from the gate. Because we spent Holy Week in our house bopping around and watching services from different of our priest friends who were streaming their various... Services. Holy Thursday and Good Friday and Easter Vigil.
Vic00:01:20Sonny, we'll get back to you in about ten minutes. And then after that, we'll talk about Axis and Allies, and we'll get back to you in another ten minutes. After that civilization, we'll get back to you in thirty.
JVL00:01:28Our friends, Father Conrad, Father Anthony, and Father Harrison. And I would now like to rank their Holy Week services. This is what I was saying.
Sonny00:01:38I knew this is where this was headed. I knew this was not a good thing. This is how you get to hell.
Vic00:01:43This is how you wind up in hell. I think this is pretty straightforward how you rank. Just look at the time on the video. And whatever the shortest one is, wins. Very quickly, very quickly.
JVL00:01:52Father Harrison, big advantage because he's doing it out of the Cathedral of Sinai. St. Matthew. So the incense, and if I could just say between us, way more than ten people inside.
Vic00:02:03Wait a minute. Wait a minute, JVL. Father Harrison?
JVL00:02:06No, Father Conrad. Oh, sorry. Father Conrad. Father Anthony working with other priests in his diocese out in Pittsburgh. Sharapa. Father Anthony Sharapa. The hair is getting a little bit out of control. Not being allowed to go and get a cut and not doing it the way some of us do. We're just taking care of it. It's like. It's like he just came out of the desert after 40 days. And Father Harrison did a lovely mass and a high degree of difficulty because he's doing it by himself out in Canada. So if I was going to rank them, I would. You know what? They're all number one.
Vic00:02:42Oh, look at that.
JVL00:02:44What a jip. Father Harrison and Father Anthony are all number one in my book. Easter fellas. It's kind of like a trinity. God.
Sonny00:02:55My priestly trinity.
JVL00:02:56How are you guys? How was your Easter, Sonny? What a rip off. You were not able to be received into church, into the church this Easter. That's the only reason.
Sonny00:03:04That was the only reason why. I actually had a whole head dunking scheduled and they couldn't do it.
Vic00:03:10I would have been the wrong church.
Sonny00:03:12Sorry. Now I got to go be a Jew.
Vic00:03:16Happy Passover. Sonny, I wanted to ask you, how's your buddy Michael Bean doing? You hanging out with him lately?
Sonny00:03:23I get a lot of texts from Michael Bean. That's not. Not a joke. That's that's an actual statement.
Vic00:03:28Who starts to text you or him or is it?
Sonny00:03:32Well, this this this all came about because I wanted to do a piece on Tombstone. I'm working at I'm working at this website that, you know, the first big film that our studio made was starring Kurt Russell. We're all huge Tombstone fans here. I wanted to do like a Tombstone week. And weirdly, the easiest in I had was with Michael Bean. I like I contacted his live. Appearances agent was like, hey, I have an idea for a story. I want like a first person piece with Michael Bean on the shooting of Tombstone at Rebeller Media dot com, where if you go and you sign up and use the promo code Sub-Beacon, that's two words Sub-Beacon. You get 25 percent off or 20 percent off. And I'm sorry, what's the address again? Sonny Bunch Media dot Rebeller. If you go to Rebeller Media dot com, you can you can find it find it all there. But anyway, I like contacted his like live appearance agent and he put me in touch with with Michael Bean's wife, actually. And I started talking with her and then like, yada, yada, yada.
JVL00:04:35Long story short. And I'm sorry, the agent says talk to the wife.
Sonny00:04:39Well, it was no, I don't want that guy as my agent. He he he he was no, he was he was being very responsible. He's being a go between. But it was just like I was just like, let me like it was it was easier for me just to talk to the the family themselves. So it was anyway, it was.
Vic00:04:56Fifteen percent is for spouses to get 15 percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sonny00:04:59So anyway, long story short, like we started chatting and I said, hey, I would really love a like first person piece about the making of Tombstone. I can like interview you or, you know, we can sit down and I can send you questions or whatever. And he was like, actually, I like I like have a writing partner. I'm looking to do some more writing. So why don't I just write like a first person piece about as a fantastic that works perfectly for me. And like, long story short, we kind of went back and forth. He wrote he actually wrote another piece for us a little bit a couple months back about Full Metal Jacket and and Stanley Kubrick. They have a friend who was who was going to be the original Gunny, who got kind of elbowed out of the way by an actor.
Vic00:05:46Isn't an actor that?
Sonny00:05:48No, no, no. He's Tim Culsary. Nice guy.
Vic00:05:51But like he just because when Arlie Ermey, yeah, when Arlie Ermey visited us at the standard, he would not say who it was that he had elbowed out.
Sonny00:06:00Yeah. Well, I mean, I look it's it's a tough business. It's a tough business. The the the acting industry is a tough business. And that role made Arlie Ermey's career that made Arlie Ermey's career. So Tim Culsary is actually in Full Metal Jacket.
JVL00:06:14What made his career was by being a badass in the U.S.
Sonny00:06:18Well, right, right, right. OK, but I mean, the other career.
Vic00:06:20So you said Culsary was actually in Full Metal Jacket.
Sonny00:06:23He's actually he's still actually in Full Metal. Jacket. He's the he's the helicopter gunner. So like, you know, the the shot, it's like the first shot is they're in Vietnam. Right. And he's killing like and it's shooting, shooting people in the fields. Right. And he's like, you know, what's what's the trick? You just if they run their VC and if they don't run their well-disciplined VC. Right. Like, anyway, it's it's it's a great little it's he had a great little story. We actually published that on at Rebeller Media dot com as well. But but the the the Tombstone Week is a thing I've been working on for like two or three months now. Very excited to actually get it out there. And I I text with Michael Bean sometimes and I say, hey, I've got this thing for your story. Is this good? Is this is this good? And hopefully we'll get it. And hopefully he he he will be interested in writing more pieces for us at Rebeller Media dot com. Yeah, I want a piece about James Cameron.
Vic00:07:16That's what I want.
Sonny00:07:16I well, it's funny. Well, I don't I don't want to divulge any. I don't want to divulge, you know, confidence.
Vic00:07:24So high up there now.
JVL00:07:25My tombstone story is that our our buddy Larry Miller, have you do you know the story, Vic? Have I told you this? So on the set of Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang, Larry. So Larry did a one day shoot on Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang, because he is the agent of the very early beginning. Right. When they are at the auditions. And so he's on set for one day and the he and Val Kilmer and RDJ were sort of sitting around you know waiting for time. And all that he and Robert Downey Jr. wanted to do was talk with Val Kilmer about Tombstone. Even Robert Downey Jr.? Yeah, Robert Downey Jr. just wanted to talk. All they wanted to do was talk about Doc Holliday and the role and everything. And he said that Kilmer was totally into it and just indulged them with every question and the two of them nerded out.
Sonny00:08:17Yeah.
JVL00:08:17Very hardcore. Because everybody who is associated with Hollywood in any way reveres Tombstone. Right? It is sort of underwhelming in the theaters. Who doesn't love it?
Sonny00:08:30It's a very strange movie because if you go and look at it now, it has this ridiculous cast, right? It has. So it has like obviously Kurt Russell, Bill Paxton, Val Kilmer, Sam Elliott. Sam Elliott. But then like on the other side of the coin, right? You have Michael Biehn, Powers Booth, Stephen Lang, you know, John Corbett, Jason Priestley, Dana Delaney, Charlton Heston is in this movie. And it was funny, Michael Biehn in the piece that's coming out tomorrow, I guess today is when people will get this on Tuesday. But Michael Biehn had like a whole scene with Heston that got cut because the funny story about Tombstone, the weird story about Tombstone is that it almost did not get finished being produced. So like the original screen, so the screenwriter, Kevin Jerry. I can't I can't pronounce his name. He he was the director as well and got replaced, I think, four or five weeks into the shoot because things were not because things were falling behind exactly, but because the the studio wasn't thrilled with what they were seeing. The investors weren't thrilled with what they were seeing. So like there's there is like a long running debate about who really directed Tombstone. Kevin Jerry gets replaced by George. Pete Cosmatos, Cosmatos, Cosmostos. I can't pronounce his name either. And the the the third kind of wheel here is Kurt Russell, who is doing a lot of the actual like day to day behind the scenes like, all right, we're going to shoot this. We're going to shoot this. We're going to shoot this. He really muscled it through into into being. So it's a really interesting story, and I'm really glad that we have Michael Bean's first person perspective at rebellermedia.com about the making of Tombstone, which is one of the great like it certainly it has like evolved into one of the great basic cable classics, but it is just compulsively watchable. Like if you if you just pop it on and watch it, it is like you can you can you go to the go to the end because it's got so many great little scenes and set pieces. The best modern Western.
JVL00:10:50I think it is. I defy you to to put Unforgiven above it.
Sonny00:10:54I would I would not. I would not put Unforgiven above it. I would I would say that open range is a is a like kind of close second. I don't know that open range is better, but like I would say Tombstone is the best and one of the last really like pure Westerns, pure modern Westerns, as opposed to the like revisionist Western, right, which is what Unforgiven falls into and like or like Bone Tomahawk or, you know, like 310 to Yuma. I mean, even 310 to Yuma. Yeah, I mean, 310. 310 to Yuma is close to being a hero type. Yeah. Or like Hostiles again, like kind of a revisionist Western.
Vic00:11:31That was a tough one.
Sonny00:11:31But I know I'm I'm a huge, enormous fan of this movie. I know lots and lots of people are. I hope everyone will enjoy reading this series. And it was it's been it's been a fun piece to bring bring to the world.
JVL00:11:46Wonderful. Your Easter, though, your Easter was great. It was a moving weekend for you. Here's a pop quiz. What happens on Good Friday? What happens to me or to Jesus? I mean, just what does good what does Good Friday commemorate and mark? There was some debate, not to get too political, that some people in American culture might not actually know what good. So, like, you know, if you with exclamation marks, wish somebody a happy Good Friday.
Sonny00:12:14So it's possible you don't know what Good Friday really is about. Good Friday was when the actual crucifixion happened, or is that when the spear of destiny pierced his side? I don't remember, frankly. Vic, it's happening.
JVL00:12:31Victorino, how are you?
Sonny00:12:32Wait, did I get it right? Yeah, you got it right. Of course you got it right. I know, I know.
Vic00:12:36I'm sure because you watched Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ. You know what's going on.
Sonny00:12:40I did watch that documentary that was shot in real time. Victorino, I have a question for you.
Vic00:12:46Yes, JVL. I shouldn't move my head back and forth because of the microphone here. So I apologize to listeners.
JVL00:12:52Sonny's gone. How did you get a Japanese armor unit? Into the Sudan?
Vic00:12:58You can pass over the Suez Canal.
JVL00:13:00Can I set this up for people? Vic sends me a picture of his Axis and Allies board. He didn't just send it to you. He sent it to you and me.
Sonny00:13:08I didn't have any idea.
JVL00:13:09Lucky you, Sonny. And Vic, of course, was playing the Axis. And the thing that jumped out at me was that all of Russia was under Japanese dominion. And the Japanese had even put armor in Africa.
Vic00:13:25Work in the darkest heart of Central Africa. Yeah, we went all the way down to South Africa. And it takes a while, but you got to get your tanks so you can get them down there.
JVL00:13:36But you ran them all the way across Asia and through the Suez Canal.
Vic00:13:39You did not use the Axis and Allies. So first and foremost, believe it or not, I'm playing. I received, no, I didn't receive this. It was a gift from my son, of course, was 1941 Axis and Allies. So this is a new edition. In 41, the U.S. still has a presence in Hawaii with battles. Battleships and stuff like that. So it's like, it's basically early, early December 1941. So it's right there on the brink. And so you have to get adjusted to that. Germany doesn't really have that big of a presence actually in North Africa as much as they do in the 1942 Milton Bradley version. So anyway, if you're the United States, the Pacific, it just takes forever to get there. It's not, I can see, I can see how Roosevelt was like, you know, MacArthur, he'll just have to fend for himself. I'm not going to get anybody over there. You know, I got to, let's focus on Europe first. And that's exactly what my son did is he focused on Europe. So he, he played as the axis for the first two times and I played as the allies and I, and I won. And I, I had told him, I said, I think that the, the odds are stacked against the axis because you got three versus two. And it's just, you know, it's one after the, you know, as soon as America has done, it's Russia again. It's just back and forth, back and forth. But then I, then I happened to win. He was fighting. I thought that it mattered. I said to him, but I said, you're fighting like Westmoreland. I said, I, you know, I, I, you know, I, I'm, I'm fighting shock and awe because he's like, do you really need all these pieces? I said, yes. The way I roll my dice. Absolutely. You need everything. You know, you send people at me one at a time where aircraft one at a time, which is, you know, it's a big mistake.
JVL00:15:12The best part about this though, is that so Vic sends me a picture of his map and I go crazy. I'm like, whoa, this is amazing. And Vic's response over text is, yeah, but it's a little bit sad for me because, you know, it's the Japanese leading. And the Germans aren't doing much.
Vic00:15:27I mean, what I really meant to say was it's unnerving, but you know what? As I was explaining, my son's like, how are you winning at it? I said, look, I'm 47 years old. I spent a lot of time reading these. I love military. I'm a world war two fanatic. I love strategy. You know what I am in another life JVL. I would have been like the, uh, the, the military advisor and Braveheart, the one to the Prince, you know, I'm, you know, what does he say? I'm skilled in the, I'm skilled in the arts of war and, and military tactics. That guy.
Sonny00:15:54So you're the one. The one who gets thrown out the window.
Vic00:15:56The one who gets defenestrated. That's that's me. I have as much, I have as much experience as he does.
JVL00:16:02Speaking of military tactics.
Vic00:16:06So anyway, that's, that, that's, that's, that's my situation. How was your Easter at home? It was fine. It was very nice. It was quiet too, obviously, but, uh, you know, I made a nice little rib roast that always takes longer to cook than you think. And then I had a fair amount to drink, so I'm taking it easy today. Um, but I've got, I got a little something, something. Is that a sinibuca? Close, Sonny. Very close. A little grappa for you. A little grappa for you. Watch this. Are you ready? I hope you enjoy it. I wish our listeners could see this. Ready? Here we go. It's my family label.
Sonny00:16:41I don't get it.
Vic00:16:42I don't understand. The desert is three weeks in every direction.
Sonny00:16:47Is this Raiders of the Lock Park?
Vic00:16:49Thank you. Yes. You know how he gets drunk?
Sonny00:16:51It took me a second.
Vic00:16:52Thank you. He gets drunk and he's pouring, but it's not. It's actually grappa. I'm sure listeners will know that what they were drinking was Arak, which is also, it's gasoline. Yeah. And I've had that too. I've had that too.
Sonny00:17:03I'd like to point out that we moved from talking about Axis and Allies to Vic role-playing as a Nazi collaborator.
Vic00:17:10He was a collaborator, wasn't he? He was terrible. He was terrible. Okay. So moving right along, but I just thought you'd appreciate my bell lock. Oh, yes. So I believe. Believe it or not, saw Trolls World Tour.
Sonny00:17:28Oh, yeah. How was it? Why?
Vic00:17:29Your children are too old to need to see that. My daughter. She wanted to see it. She loved the first one. I saw the second one. You know what? I kind of got sucked into it, I have to say. Sam Rockwell does a great voice, by the way. You paid $20 to rent it.
Sonny00:17:45What was that? You paid $20 to rent it.
Vic00:17:47Yeah. You know what? If it keeps the kids happy in this time of pandemic, that's a small price to pay. If it buys you 90 minutes.
JVL00:17:53Yeah.
Vic00:17:53That's right. I mean, they don't have that. You know, that's their vacation, whatever. And so, yeah, it was $20 for what? 48 hours, I think is what they said. So, none of you saw it? No. No. No. None of you saw it. Okay. So, I guess only two of us saw it. What?
JVL00:18:11This show has all sorts of surprises.
Vic00:18:13Hold on. Trolls World Tour is a tour de force. Anna Kendrick is pitch perfect as Queen. Poppy. And Justin Timberlake goes out on a limb as Branch. Limb. Branch. He's in love with her, but she isn't listening. I guess you could say they aren't quite in sync. I give Trolls World Tour three stars. Can't stop the feeling that I just watched one long music video. But the kids will be entertained. And that's the Critics' Corner. She is a short review for a movie about short creatures. But speaking about being entertained, this spring is the 20th anniversary of Gladiator. That's it.
Sonny00:19:09I get it. Are you not entertained?
Vic00:19:11Are you not entertained? But before I get there, do you have any... Oh, this is a new segment to the show now. Do you have any digital release thoughts? Box office thoughts. Digital release thoughts. I do, actually. Because I read the story about trolls and there's no numbers.
Sonny00:19:30No, it is actually... So I can't remember if we talked about this last week, but I have several thoughts. The first and foremost of which is Universal released a statement today that said something like, This is the greatest performing Universal VOD release of all time. We're number one on all platforms. And I was like, this is worse than useless. This is a piece of information that is worse than useless. And there's no numbers. Because there are no actual numbers. There's no actual money figure. It's just saying like, okay, well, this is done. This is the best. It's the best. But it doesn't actually mean anything. And this is the world in which we inhabit. Now, somebody was trying to sell a, like, com score style service for VOD that, would analyze the, and I was like, okay, well, this is a scam. This thing that they are trying to sell me is a scam. Because I can look at the charts just as well as they can. And I can say, okay, $20 is more than $5. So, like, the simple fact of the matter is that the studios don't have to give out any information. And because they do not have to give out any information, they will not give out any information. And if they will not give out any information, other than, like, what we can see on Amazon and iTunes and the rest, we have no information. So, basically, we're all flying blind right now. And we all have to take the word of the studios. And anyone who believes a studio is a complete idiot and deserves to be shamed in public, in the square, with a whipping.
JVL00:21:13In their defense, though, at least they didn't come up with a made-up metrics. Like what Netflix does. So, what Universal could have done if they wanted to be true. Truly awful was said, we just set records by recording 472 million quality-adjusted viewing minutes. And then just, like, mic drop, walked away. Because this is what Netflix does all the time. They just make up these quality-adjusted viewing minute. Or we have this many people who sat through at least 45 seconds.
Sonny00:21:50Yeah. I think it's two minutes is the official. So, here's the thing.
JVL00:21:54Do you think the studios are going to sort of, like, lean into this, like Bill Belichick? You know, like, what Belichick's injury reports are famously like, yeah, he's got a, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And just, like, will mumble away so that nobody has. Do you think they're going to, like, get into it? Because it used to be the old culture of Hollywood. Again, the pandemic changes everything. The old culture was, like, everybody dick measures and, like, this is our, here are our Friday estimates. Everyone wants to show how much money they've actually made. And now, maybe post-pandemic, everybody in Hollywood gets their jollies out of. They're hiding how much money they're making.
Sonny00:22:27Yeah, I. Maybe. Maybe. It will depend on how robust. So, the real question is what happens with the first big movie back, right? Let's say Tenet, which is still on the map at July 22nd or something like that. Not going to happen. Is the first big movie back.
JVL00:22:48Will not happen. There is no movie back.
Sonny00:22:51Well, there has to be a movie back eventually.
Vic00:22:54So, theaters will open again. What you're saying, JVL, is movie theaters will never open ever again? Is that what you're saying?
JVL00:23:00I think it is possible that movie theaters will not open again. Yes.
Sonny00:23:05I think that is unlikely. It's possible, I guess. I think that is unlikely. So, eventually, you will have a big movie back. And I'm putting my hand up here because I want to come back to this in a second. But eventually, you will have a big movie back. Eventually, movie theaters will open again and movies will come back. The question is, what happens that first weekend? So, let's say, for the sake of argument, that it's Tenet, which is the new Christopher Nolan movie, PG-13, big action movie, summer set piece. Everyone was probably guessing that it would gross around $100 million on its opening weekend, right? Pre-pandemic. Let's say it comes back and it grosses $20 million. Okay? Then the question becomes, well, how do you actually evaluate something like this? Everyone would say, well, we have to cut this some slack because it's the first movie back and theaters are only half full and people aren't going blah, blah, blah. And then the question becomes, well, maybe we don't have to report these figures because maybe they're not useful because maybe, you know. And that is, I think, the point at which you will see studios really start to pull out of the system that they, because they are essentially all agreed to this by a gentleman's agreement. It's not like there's no law requiring them to report their box office figures, right? Like they can't lie about them. That would be a securities violation. But they also, there's no law that says you have to report your box office figures. Netflix does not report their box office figures, for instance. So following the lead of Netflix and having to adjust to the new reality of audience X, like the audience numbers. Simply just being much lower than they used to be. Maybe the studios say, we're not going to report these numbers anymore. They're not useful right now. And if they stop reporting them, they will never start again.
JVL00:25:06That's the thing I actually believe. How does that make you feel, Sonny? How does what make me feel? The prospect of a world without any sort of box office data, because it makes me, it makes me crazy.
Sonny00:25:17It makes me, it makes me very sad. Well, I mean, look, half, half of Amazon broke half of me. Ready by destroying box office mojo. Um, so by, by the, the fact that I don't have box office mojo just to go to and flick through, you know, just kind of like to look at like random data points five times a day, which is literally something I would do. Uh, I, I have like broken the habit of, of being kind of obsessed with box office. Um, so I, it, it, it, it still bums me out, but probably less than it would have like nine months ago before Amazon killed box office mojo. Sonny, I have good news.
JVL00:25:54I have a workaround. So when this inevitably happens, because there will be no box office data, I know how you can get a pretty good sense and approximation of what the numbers are. Well, how you go on to this website, twitter.com and see what people are talking about. You just pay attention to what people are talking about and whatever they're talking about on trending category that will tell you, like, for instance, if you go on to twitter.com, you know, that book wise or book smart, whatever that, but that was a really good idea. Huge movie did insane business. I mean, open to one hundred forty eight million dollars at least is a lot for a small for a small, small independent film. So anyway, you can if this doesn't really happen, you can still get a sense.
Sonny00:26:39I can look at the Google trends going on. Yes. Engrams.
Vic00:26:43Yeah. To see what the searches are for. I go to Facebook for that. That's where I look. I check on Facebook. Sonny. So we, you know.
JVL00:26:52Do you want to give us a big boy review?
Vic00:26:54We have a big boy review. Gladiator. What was the what do you call it? I sent you guys the link because AMC was supposed to do this. What do you call these event things that they fathom events?
Sonny00:27:04Fathom. Fathom event. Was there a fathom events for for Gladiator? Was there supposed to be?
Vic00:27:10Yeah. Yeah. Twenty years ago.
Sonny00:27:14Gladiator directed by Ridley Scott starring Russell Crowe. It's about Maximus, a general in the Roman army who commanded. Bans the respect of his men and is betrayed by. By. Joaquin Phoenix. Commodus. Commodus. Betrayed. He's he's betrayed by Joaquin Phoenix, a.k.a. The Joker, because Joaquin Phoenix really wants to be in charge of the empire. But the the emperor says, no, I'm going to give it back to the people. And so. They he has he has Russell Crowe killed or tries to have him killed. Russell Crowe gets away. He gets back to his his vineyard. But it turns out his family's already been murdered. So he he then becomes a slave and he has to fight in the gladiatorial arena. Blah, blah, blah. Comes back to Rome and restores the republic. Long story short, that was the end of the Roman Empire. It was a republic after that.
Vic00:28:19No, it was lasted just a couple hundred years.
Sonny00:28:22So my it was funny. That movie came out. In 2000, like, well, I guess if it came out 20 years ago, so it came out now. It came out like two months before I was supposed to be done with my first class in Roman history, right? Like we had a Roman history course.
Vic00:28:40And this is in grade school or no, no, no, no.
Sonny00:28:42This is this is in college. This is in college. So the the the as as the Roman history class was coming was coming to an end. This movie comes out and the professor. Was like, this movie is ridiculous. This movie is absurd. Everything that happens in this movie is wrong. Commodus and Marcus Aurelius ruled together for like 10 years like this. There was no father son antagonist. Anyway, the the the long story short here is the the professor at the on the final had a bonus question was like, if you can name five inaccuracies in gladiator, you get an extra point on your on your final exam. And I named like 15. I just kept listing. I kept listing them. I don't know. Yeah, I love this movie. It's great. As absurd as it is, it is the like kind of it's the last great modern sword and sandal movie. Like there has been nothing else since this came out that even there have been like spooks or parodies of it like in Hail Caesar. There have been some not there have been some parodies and like 300 would probably be the closest to this. But 300 is. So stylized and doing such a specific thing that it's not really a sword and sandal movie. It's it's more of a comic book movie. So I don't know. I am a total sucker for this movie. I love it. I am like Ralphie Cifaretto from The Sopranos, who you who we will all remember, Jonathan, as you were a giant fan of The Sopranos. The best show ever on television. As an enormous early adopter of HBO, you will remember this. Ralphie Cifaretto was a huge fan. Of of of Gladiator. He would come on.
Vic00:30:27Yeah, Joey Pants. And he was swinging the ball and chain and he hits the bouncer. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Sonny00:30:32Yeah. No, I love this movie. I love this movie. And it was funny. I went to go. So I own it on DVD. It was one of like the first 10 DVDs that I bought. Probably it was one of the very early DVDs. And it's so old that it's a flipper. Yep. It's a flipper.
JVL00:30:49So I I got to the end of the first disc.
Sonny00:30:52I was like, I have to flip this. I have to flip this thing over. What is this? The Dark Ages? What am I? Am I watching a LP? But it was it was it was great. I love it.
Vic00:31:03Yeah, I was going to say even today in 2020 because it's on all the time still. And the question is, does it hold up?
Sonny00:31:12Well, it's it's a weird movie. I like I had forgotten that the opening action sequence is basically shot like a Tony Scott action sequence, not a Ridley Scott. Action sequence, which is very interesting. I mean, like it is it's shot with the kind of step framing it's the like step framing the like shuttering kind of affect quick cuts, lots of lots of motion, lots of movement. But it's not it's not I don't love that part of it. And I had forgotten and I was like, oh, crap, is all of this movie like this? Have I forgotten? But no, the rest of it's actually very clean and very, very like pristinely shot and kind of situated and framed. So I I'm I'm I'm enormously fond of this movie. And it's funny. It was it was also one of the movies with that had used some of the tricks that like that Titanic had used, like building a lot of the sets out of CGI and kind of there's
Vic00:32:10a combination.
Sonny00:32:11Yeah. So like all of the all of the Coliseum shots were essentially like CGI, the audience and the like buildings themselves. And some of that kind of is kind of obvious.
Vic00:32:23I'd say so. It's noticeable because the colors. Yeah. The color. Yeah. The color.
Sonny00:32:27The color gratings aren't aren't quite there.
Vic00:32:29Can I ask you a question? The tiger, the tiger.
JVL00:32:32What format were you guys watching it on when you rewatched it?
Sonny00:32:36Well, it's an I mean, like it was on DVD enhanced screen off of my DVD.
JVL00:32:42OK, so I watched the ultra high def version of it and it looks like a million bucks. Oh, really? It really does not. I think it is a medium problem that you are having. That's interesting. Yeah. If you look at the ultra high def version, which you can buy from Amazon or Voodoo for 1999, it looks like it came out yesterday. The funny thing is, I'm sorry. We did on the.
Sonny00:33:07Were you streaming it in UHD or did you? OK. Yeah.
Vic00:33:10Streaming.
Sonny00:33:10Wow.
Vic00:33:11Fantastic. You know, there are certain scenes like in the Coliseum where they use matches. You remember this little little people, the little people they did. So some of it CGI and some of it is just miniatures. But they're panning so fast that you can't tell. Uh, I JVL, you remember when you saw Gladiator for the first time? I do. I think with you. Yes, that is.
JVL00:33:32We saw it at the Cineplex Odeon on Wisconsin Avenue.
Vic00:33:38That's right. I was going to say Van Ness, but I forgot what it was called. That's Cineplex Odeon.
Sonny00:33:42That's not the uptown.
Vic00:33:43No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not where we saw it.
JVL00:33:46We saw a press screening of it. The Allied press screen.
Vic00:33:48It was across from the flagship McDonald's as we used to call it. Formerly the last.
JVL00:33:53Roy Rogers in the Washington, D.C. area.
Sonny00:33:56Wait, wait, where was the Cineplex Odeon? Because that has not been there for a long time.
Vic00:34:00Van Ness in Wisconsin.
JVL00:34:02Yeah, I think that's right. You go all the way across the, down the street from the Washington Ballet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's past the cathedral. This is the best, the best bit we've ever done on the show is talking about D.C. geography.
Vic00:34:14That's right. But, but do you remember how everybody was so excited to see this movie? And I can't remember why people were excited to see this movie. Because that's awesome. Just, just from the commercials, I mean. Because it's freaking great. I mean, obviously it's great after seeing it. But before it, people were like, oh, we got to see this movie.
JVL00:34:31So I'm going to say, so I went and re-watched the trailer for it today. Okay. The trailer blows. Oh. The trailer's really bad. Why were people, was it just Russell Crowe?
Sonny00:34:41Russell Crowe, who we saw. The TV spots. The TV spots are where the action was with the tiger.
Vic00:34:47Tiger, you see the tiger. People liked it. And it'd been a while since there was a good sword and sandal, as you say, Sonny. The other thing I was thinking about. Was Russell Crowe a big draw at that? He had done L.A. Confidential, right?
Sonny00:34:58He had done L.A. Confidential, and he had been in Virtuosity, right? He was definitely like. He was bursting onto the scene. He was a known quantity. He was definitely a known quantity. I don't think he was. I would say this was his first big. Big. Big. I don't know. L.A. Confidential, he was the star of L.A. Confidential. I mean.
JVL00:35:18Yeah, but this is the first time he was a movie star. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. He's so great in this. Gosh, he's so great. Vic, I have a question for you. Yes.
Vic00:35:29JVL.
JVL00:35:29Of all of the Gladiator sequences. Oh, yes. Which is your favorite? Okay. Sonny, same question.
Vic00:35:39Okay. Man. I would say second best and first best. This is so hard, JVL. Okay. That's what she said. Second one is he's still working his way up in the. Small arenas and he's fighting. Yes, that's right. And there's one guy who's got the spear in the net. Remember this? And it's like, never. You never want. Never. Although, I mean, if you're good at it, you're great. Okay. If you got the net and you're good. Great. Save it. Save this bit. Move on. Really? Okay. I see. I see. I see. Okay. So right before he says, are you not entertained? Not only does he kill the guy multiple times with swords, he cuts his head off. Yes. Like. He does like a scissor action. Scissor. Yeah. Yeah. The bad scissor action. And then the other one that I would say I like was the recreation of the Punic wards.
JVL00:36:35Where they use the shields to upend the chariot.
Vic00:36:37Because there is the African charioteer driver woman. Well, she's the archer. She's the archer. She's the archer. And then she got split. She got split in two. Wow. That was amazing. So, I mean, again, I mean, the quadrants. It was great. And then it worked its way up. It was almost anticlimactic in the end when he's there just fighting swords with Commodus.
Sonny00:37:03I love that final fight with Commodus because it is the, there's like a truth to it, which is that strength will overcome lots and lots of flaws. And like what it comes down to at the end is that Commodus is just weaker than Maximus. Physically weaker, yeah. I mean, like physically, like at one point, Commodus just. Just like tries, he goes at him and Maximus like grabs his arm and it's like, no. And like that, that is like the end of that fight.
Vic00:37:30It was also very presumptuous of him to wear the white cape armor thing outfit for Commodus.
JVL00:37:37Remember that? It was white. Can I say something about the Joaquin Phoenix portrayal of Commodus? Sure. It strikes me almost like a perfect wrestling heel turn because his character generates so much heat that there's no, it's not like Hannibal Lecter or, you know, he's really, really bad and scary, but you're also kind of rooting for him. You know, it's not like Gary Oldman. There's no redeeming quality. Air Force One where he still is Air Force. You know, he's Gary Oldman. It's fun to watch him act. With Commodus, he's got the combination of simperingness with evilness and Joaquin Phoenix does it always. You just want to watch him die and it puts over that final fight because the audience wants to see him. Die so fucking badly by the time that moment comes that the fight is real catharsis because of Phoenix's portrayal as one of the great heel turns in modern cinema history.
Sonny00:38:37Yeah, well, it's not really a heel turn. It's just a heel, right? Right. So he's just a heel.
Vic00:38:42I also like the battle with the Tigers and Titus of Gaul. They had to bring him out of retirement. And he was about the size of my brother-in-law, the one from New Jersey, that brother-in-law.
JVL00:38:53There's a lot of scars on him when you see him in 65 inches and ultra high definition, not only on a face, but like his belly and chest have scars everywhere.
Vic00:39:04We who are about to die salute you, remember?
Sonny00:39:07It's great. Sonny, what are your favorite?
JVL00:39:10Because in a way, you could view Gladiator as like one of the great sports movies of all time. It's like Hoosiers. You started, you know, and the tournament starts in these little rinky dink barn houses. Then you work your way up to like the big finals against Muncie.
Vic00:39:23The Coliseum is Hinkle.
JVL00:39:26Now, what do you think, Sonny?
Sonny00:39:27I don't know. What's the question here?
JVL00:39:29Your favorite Gladiator sequence.
Sonny00:39:34Well, the end. The end. Oh, yours is the Commodus. Yeah, yeah.
JVL00:39:39Mine is the first one. And I would like to tell you why. It's because of the big dude who becomes Maximus's friend, who is either German or... I don't know if he's German. Is he German?
Vic00:39:54He was definitely... Well, he would have been French. Yeah.
Sonny00:39:56He was definitely one of Arnold's stunt doubles at some point.
JVL00:40:02So they get into the arena, and they're all shackled to a partner, and his partner gets killed. And so he takes his sword, and he cuts off the partner's hand. But then he starts swinging the chain around, and he actually uses the hand at the end of the chain to beat in the head one of the other bad guy Gladiators. And that moment is the moment... I forgot about that. ...where I just... I just lost my mind. I thought it was so cool.
Sonny00:40:26Can we give a shout-out to Jaimon Hanzo here? Yes! This is, like, his first... One of his first big roles. By the way, we forgot the Insider.
JVL00:40:36Insider is after this, isn't it?
Sonny00:40:38It comes after.
Vic00:40:39No, it's got to come after Gladiator.
Sonny00:40:40The Insider came out in 1999.
Vic00:40:43Oh, really?
Sonny00:40:45This came out in 2000.
JVL00:40:46Wait, so does it go Insider, Beautiful Mind, then Gladiator?
Sonny00:40:49No, Beautiful Mind comes after Gladiator.
JVL00:40:52Wow. So, we're going to do more rankings, and we are each going to rank a thing, as promised.
Vic00:41:00By the way, I will say, and it's a great cast, you know, with lots of talented actors, like Oliver Reed and, what's his name, Richard Harris, you know, and they were very talented. Also, Connie Nielsen was there.
Sonny00:41:17Oh, come on.
Vic00:41:19I loved it. You know what? I like Connie Nielsen. I don't know if she was in The Devil's Advocate. And I like Connie Nielsen. And then I saw her in Mission to Mars, and I said, that's it. I have a question. Yes, JVL.
JVL00:41:31Does Commodus actually fuck his sister, or no? He wants to. I don't know if he had done it before. Does he just want to, or does he actually want to get in there? He wants to. Do they have relations?
Vic00:41:40He wants to.
JVL00:41:40I'm sure he wants to, but is it consummated? No, no. It's hinted at, but no.
Vic00:41:44It's why she sort of is going down.
Sonny00:41:47Yeah, that's why she gets Maximus out of the prison.
Vic00:41:51Is he B? Is he B?
JVL00:41:54So, before we get to our other rankings, I have a bonus ranking, because I promise this is the show of rankings. Okay. And I have ranked gladiator weapons. Oh, we will see. All right, all right. From one to ten. And I will simply, I'm going to submit my entries to you, and you can comment if you like. Number one. Hold on, hold on. From least, least to least? Best. Best. The weapon that you've used to choose. You're going to start with the best?
Vic00:42:22Yes.
JVL00:42:23You're going to start with the worst. No. Work your way up to the best. No. That's not how I'm doing it.
Sonny00:42:28Well, you're doing it wrong.
JVL00:42:30Number one. Short sword and shield. Right? Victorino, they can't hear you if all you do is nod. You have to say yes. Right. I'm writing something. It's well-balanced.
Vic00:42:43It's well-balanced, but it could. And if you're the average body, take the short sword and shield. I agree.
JVL00:42:49Number two. Pike. Pike is really good. You can hold the guys at a distance. But you know what? You can rush him. Number three. A two-handed sword. You got to be big. Number four. Axe. Number five. Hammer. Number six. Mace. Number six. Yeah? No? You don't like the mace? Mace would be like ball and chain, you mean? No. No, no. Mace. Mace is the one without the ball and chain.
Sonny00:43:16The ball on a stick.
JVL00:43:18Yes.
Vic00:43:19Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I got it.
Sonny00:43:21I got it.
JVL00:43:21Okay. Number seven. A ball and chain.
Vic00:43:25If you could swing it, nobody's going to go near you, I'm telling you. No. It takes so long to get an arc all the way. You're open and exposed for like three seconds each time. One from Lord of the Rings.
JVL00:43:38And if it gets wrapped up on somebody, you're done. You have nothing to do. Terrible weapon.
Vic00:43:42I don't know. I'm going to swing that thing. Don't come near me.
JVL00:43:45Number eight. Number eight. A rock that you pick up off the ground. Because you could always just use a rock.
Vic00:43:52That's how bad. The bottom one is.
JVL00:43:53I'm curious to see what the number nine puppy. So if you a puppy. So if you get a puppy who's with you, it could like attack and yip at the heels of the other gladiators. That would be helpful. Number 10. Number 10. Trident and net. Because let me tell you, the guy with the trident in the net dies first every fucking time.
Vic00:44:14Are you believing? You don't want the trident in the net. Family podcast. Are you bleeping? No, we're not bleeping. We're not going to pass that. We're in a crisis. We're in a crisis. The other thing the quarantine has killed is the bleeping. The bleeping. The thing about the spear in the net, like I said, you have to. No, the trident. Remember, the spear, the pike is okay.
JVL00:44:33Because the problem with the trident is because of the three prongs, if somebody gets something stuck between the two of them, they can then maneuver it around. If it's just a spear or a pike, that's actually better. You don't want the prongs. The prongs are useless.
Vic00:44:47If your enemy was a giant like fish, the trident would be very good. Because that's where they come from. They got it from. And the net thing, okay, if you actually manage, because chances are you could probably miss or only hit part of them with the net. And sometimes the net, I believe, is weighted, right? The ends are weighted. But you only get one. There's like 15 people running around and you've got a net that you can only use once. If it's just you versus somebody else and you throw, if you happen to land it on that person perfectly, you better rush at him so fast while that person's disoriented. Like, what is this? And that's your only way to win with that. I will tell you this, JVL. This is very interesting. When I was in Germany, I visited a place that was a Roman ruin had been uncovered in Germany near Trier and it was like a whole floor mosaic. And the mosaic was from the Colosseum, it was like a Colosseum mosaic in Germany. And so it had pictures of different characters and wild animals from, you know, that time. And one had like a hyena. And this is a mosaic that was, you know, dusted off from 2000 years, a hyena versus a soldier or a Roman guy, a gladiator with a glove handled sword. So the whole hand is covered.
JVL00:46:01Oh, yes. Yeah.
Vic00:46:02The sword glove. Sword glove. You don't get sword glove.
JVL00:46:05No, it goes into, right? It's almost like you have a hook for a hand, but it's a short sword coming out of it. That's exactly right.
Vic00:46:12Sonny, you have lots of thoughts here. I can see.
Sonny00:46:14No, the number one weapon is a king size. Bolito.
JVL00:46:22Bolito. You just sneak up behind him and get it around their neck.
Sonny00:46:26I'm glad.
JVL00:46:27I'm glad. We're going to come back to the Bolito because there is one character in these in this movie who the gladiator. Do you know what I'm talking about with the giant, the helmet that almost looks like a fisherman's hat? And it's got the benefits.
Vic00:46:43That would be the only helmet that would fit me.
JVL00:46:46Yeah. And so I always wondered, what is the practicality of that? What does that helmet do for you? And the answer is. It protects against the Bolito.
Sonny00:46:55You can't get the Bolito over that guy's. No, no cartel guy sneaking up behind that guy. Tell you what. Although if he gets if he gets the Bolito around him, it'll still just crunch right through it.
Vic00:47:06By the way, JVL, I appreciated your answer for Sonny, which was king size. Well, anything, any weapon king size. OK, this is the best show we've ever done. Ever. Ever. It only gets better every week. You had. Are there other rankings you wanted?
JVL00:47:23So three, three rankings. We're going to rank the rank Gladiator movies. We're going to rank. Help me, because I'm I've had too much sangria. Ridley Scott movies. Ridley Scott movies. And we're going to rank Russell Crowe movies.
Sonny00:47:39Sure.
JVL00:47:39I forget who's doing which. I'm doing Gladiator. I have Ridley Scott. Yeah. Sonny, why don't you go first?
Sonny00:47:46All right. I'm going to rank these from number five to number one. That's what I'm doing.
JVL00:47:53But good.
Sonny00:47:55OK. Number five is The Counselor, where the Bolito comes from. The The Counselor is the the Cormac McCarthy script that he he directed.
Vic00:48:05I thought that was I thought that was the John Grisham novel.
Sonny00:48:08No, The Counselor. The Counselor is the bleakest, darkest movie that anyone has ever made. Right now, John Podhortz is throwing his phone through a window because he hates this movie. But I am I'm an enormous fan. Of this, this terribly, terribly bleak picture starring Michael Fassbender, Michael F. Fassbender about a lawyer who gets into a drug deal that goes wrong and then he has sealed his fate just by being in it. It is it is absolutely 100 percent one of the like darkest, most terrible, most terrifying pictures that I've ever seen. JVL, I think you would actually really, really like it.
JVL00:48:50I've read the screenplay.
Sonny00:48:51I think. Well, I.
JVL00:48:52Did you love this? I love the screenplay. I think you would really.
Sonny00:48:54I could not watch the movie. I think you would really enjoy the movie knowing how much you hate seeing not bad things happen to bad people. Like if you if you don't mind seeing people get their comeuppance, this is the movie for you. This is that's all. Number four is I'm doing this all from memory, so I've had a lot to drink. So give me give me one second here. Number four is I will say. Because that's what we're talking about right now. Number three is Black Hawk Down, which I consider to be one of the all time great war movies.
Vic00:49:33And the way Gladiator made Russell Crowe a star, that movie made Josh Hartnett a big star.
Sonny00:49:40Exactly. Exactly. Right. Right. No, but no, the best performance in that movie is Eric Bana, who plays Hoot, the the without the, you know, special operator who gets in and out of of Mogadishu. Absolutely 100 percent one of my favorite war movies and a movie that every time I watch it, I just get angry and want to, like, go bomb a country just just at random. Just just.
Vic00:50:10Orlando Bloom, another great Orlando Bloom.
Sonny00:50:12Also good. Number two is Alien, of course, which the the trucker horror. Space movie that introduced us to the Xenomorph and number one is Blade Runner, which I think is basically just a perfect movie. Perfect, perfect dystopian sci fi movie. I love it.
Vic00:50:34I like Blade Runner 2049 better.
Sonny00:50:38Really? It's controversial opinion, but it's simpler. It's simpler. It's easier to follow.
Vic00:50:45There you go. Also, there's good vials. Oh, that's totally scored across the quadrants.
Sonny00:50:51Think about that. You love it. I love Anna D'Armas.
JVL00:50:54Oh, she's fantastic.
Sonny00:50:55And Mackenzie Davis.
Vic00:50:57Oh, all of the above. Uh, great movie and understandable. Okay. Um, Russell Crowe ranked, uh, by the way, have you seen Russell Crowe today? Like now, did you see that awful photo of him talking to this woman at some coffee shop and he has his hand inside his sweat pants, like scratching his butt and he is enormous.
Sonny00:51:18Well, he's the fattier he is. He is. Uh, he is a guy who loves to live life. He loves, he likes to drink his foster and eat his kangaroo steaks and, you know, throw a shrimp on the Bobby and, you know, look for that photo.
Vic00:51:35You'll, you won't unsee that. Okay.
Sonny00:51:37No, it's funny. It's very funny. There was a, I'm sorry to interrupt there. A few years back, there was a photo of, um, of, uh, it was when, it was when the, the mummy movie came out and there was a photo, there was a photo of Tom Cruise and Russell Crowe together and there.
JVL00:51:52Basically the same age, they're basically the same age and, uh, It's just, it's striking.
Sonny00:52:01It's, it's just striking to like, see the two of them together. And it's like, okay, well, that's, that's a man who has lived his life in a certain way and has like treated his body like a temple and the Thetans have been expunged and he's reached, he's reached OT seven or eight or whatever it is. And then, and then you, and then you have a normal man. Then you have a normal man. Russell Crowe was that normal man and God bless us all. I wish we should all be that normal man and not the, the freak Scientologist.
Vic00:52:32Okay. Uh, so this is a five to one, like the door song, uh, five is actually a tie because I was just feeling silly and it is a beautiful minded virtuosity. I, I saw virtuosity in the theater. Uh, this was around 1995. There was nothing else to watch. And, uh, he was in. Opposite Denzel Washington and he was so over the top. I was like, ah, you know, and then I saw beautiful mind, ah, you know, I just, I feel like when he did that role as professor Nash. Yeah, it was, it was almost all right. Yes. It was like Jim Carrey ask in terms of his really trying hard to be serious, even though he's already been serious, but I just thought it was a bit much. Uh, I also, I saw that movie. I also saw part of that movie on an airplane without sound.
JVL00:53:26Can I object to, to your cat capping on his performance and virtuosity? Because virtuosity is a garbage movie, terrible movie, but he's, it was early internet too.
Vic00:53:40He's absolutely magnetic in it. You can't take your eyes off of them.
JVL00:53:43It was so clear in that movie that he was going to be a giant star, but it was, it was also super over the top.
Sonny00:53:49It was that, that is like one of those, like over. The top performance is that you, you either really love or hate.
Vic00:53:55Okay. I loved it. Okay. You're going to hate my arrangement of this JVL. Number four is the insider. I, you know, I, I, I like him. I, I was skeptical about him having gone from gladiator to this role of Jeffrey Wygand because they are two physically different species. But he did a pretty good job of chubbing it up. And as we all know now, he can do that. He has that power.
Sonny00:54:18But except it was the exact opposite. He did Wygand and then. Gladiator.
Vic00:54:24All right. You pointed that out. What happened before that was, oh, well, we're getting there. We're getting there. We're getting there. Okay. So it was after LA Confidential. Okay. You know who I like better in the insider was Bruce McGill. And I know JVL agrees with me on that. Yes. Okay. Duration is what killed that movie for me. Although you and I saw that movie together.
JVL00:54:45At the Uptown at the red carpet premiere with Al Pacino there in attendance.
Vic00:54:50That's right. Okay. Number three. I like Cinderella, man. I know it's Ron Howard. It's schmaltzy. But I know. Look at Sonny. Look, you look like you just had a little bit of Jin Ricky. Too much lime. Too much. I know it's schmaltzy. I liked it. Number two, LA Confidential. LA Confidential. That's the first time I think I remember. No, that's right. I was like, hey, that's the guy from Virtuosity. That's what happened when I saw LA Confidential. I was so wonderfully surprised by that movie. I don't think I had any expectations going in there. I don't think I had any expectations going in there. I don't think I had any expectations going in there. Why do I think I saw that with you as well?
JVL00:55:23We saw The Uptown together.
Vic00:55:26But it's a great movie. Okay. Unexpected twists and turns. It required me to think a little bit in the end because I'm like, wait, what? I thought this was like a hate crime or something. And then it turns out that no, it's drug running. Okay. And number one, aren't you so glad I'm doing this ranking? Number one is Gladiator. Did he not? He did not win the Academy Award for Best Actor for Gladiator. Is that right? But the movie won. Correct. He won it for Beautiful. Beautiful Mind.
JVL00:55:54That's right.
Sonny00:55:55Makeup Award. Well, he was nominated three years in a row for The Insider, then Gladiator, then A Beautiful Mind.
Vic00:56:00Yeah. And then that was one where Elizabeth Taylor sort of strangely announced the winner was Gladiator and she was kind of loopy. And then he ended up doing it. And then I stopped seeing movies that he did. I think I saw Proof of Life.
Sonny00:56:15Proof of Life. I love Proof of Life. Proof of Life was on like Showtime or something once. And I watched it about 37 times with Meg Ryan and David Caruso as his partners in the extraction game.
Vic00:56:31You know, I mean, because then you can't you cannot compare to Russell Crowe in that movie if you're the husband. Yeah.
Sonny00:56:38And who's oh, who's the who's the great character actor who plays the husband who gets kidnapped?
Vic00:56:42That's what I mean. Yeah. Blanking out is driving me crazy. OK, but you guys are missing the quick and the dead.
JVL00:56:51Well, yeah. How can you leave that off? How can you leave 310 to Yuma off? This is David Morris. That's who I was thinking of.
Vic00:56:59Oh, David Morris, who's also actually a giant. Yeah, he's a big guy. He's a giant. I've never seen 310 to Yuma. I've never, you know, I have nice guys.
Sonny00:57:10How can I have nice guys on Cinderella, man?
Vic00:57:13I have not.
Sonny00:57:14What a terrible. What a trash list. You made a trash list list.
Vic00:57:19Every movie I saw Russell Crowe in all five.
Sonny00:57:21He was in Man of Steel. He was Jor-El in Man of Steel. Come on. Come on. Man of Steel. The only good Superman movie. I hope you enjoy that sound effect from my nose. The only good Superman movie.
JVL00:57:34All right. We're running long. I'm going to rank the movies for you. Yeah, we are. Oh, boy. Five.
Vic00:57:40It's a point to people. Two hours. Oh, number five. So, OK, go ahead. Number five.
JVL00:57:46Classic. No, no need to explain it. Number four, the arena. Now, I mean, this is. The 2001 exploitation flick that was created as a direct response. In a lot of ways, it's talking back to Gladiator, but with women. And it stars two Playboy playmates, one of whom was Karen McDougal. And it is a loose adaptation of a 1974 film of the same name, whose one sheet poster was this. I'm sold. The tagline for people who cannot see it is black slave, white slave. The wild women fight to the death. But it's okay because it's feminist. Yeah, of course. It's intersectional, really. Number three, Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, which is a Gladiator movie. Sure. Number two, Thor Ragnarok. Also a Gladiator movie. The only Gladiator comedy on my list. And number one, Gladiator. All right. You know what I would have thrown in there?
Vic00:58:48So many rankings tonight. I would have thrown in there any given Sunday.
Sonny00:58:52My ranking, for the record, my ranking was the best ranking. I'm just going to – let's rank the rankings. Number one was my ranking. Number two was JVL. And number three was –
Vic00:59:06You know what? Metacritic or whatever it is, CinemaScore, they like my rankings. They love it. Okay. Corrections, shoutouts, anything else? I have a correction.
JVL00:59:19JVL. When we were discussing – When we were discussing professional wrestling last week, we were talking about the WWE Network and how WWE had made the very brave move to junk their pay-per-view revenue stream in an attempt to pull in subscribers. And Sonny had said, you know, see, it's going great. And I said, yeah, I don't know. Is it? And it turns out, no. No. Terrible decision they made. Their break-even number – Well, it may not have been a terrible decision. It may have been a decision that was going to – they had to make at some point. Maybe they made it too soon. Their break-even number is about 4 million subscribers. They only have 1.5 million several years into it. And so they are actually looking to somehow get back into a version of the pay-per-view model. And what it seems like they're going to do is try to convince ESPN Plus or somebody else to pay them for their big pay-per-views to broadcast on ESPN or whatever the ESPN pay service is. This sounds like something that would have been much more achievable back when Disney had money, which is no longer the case because everybody, including Disney, is now getting killed by the pandemic. So, yeah, correction.
Sonny01:00:37It was funny. I read that story like two days after we did the show. I was like, oh, it turns out I was wrong. We didn't even talk about the terrible decision.
JVL01:00:47XFL RIP. RIP. Second time. Here's a question. Did they play more games this time or the last time? I don't think so.
Sonny01:00:55I think they played more games the last time. I think they played more games the last time because they canceled the season before the end of the season. There were still like two games left.
Vic01:01:04JVL, do you ever remember Keith Elias by any chance from New Jersey? Yeah. He was a local kid.
JVL01:01:10Do you know my Keith Elias story? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do. From Princeton, right? So Keith Elias went to Princeton. And for all I know, it was like the first Princeton football player in 20 years to be drafted and play in the NFL. He went and played for the Giants. And so he was, as you can imagine, an NFL player in the Ivy League, was the most dominant player in Ivy League football in like 30 years. I mean, he was just unstoppable. He's like a little white kid. Yeah, he's from Tom's River. Just packed with muscles. And I remember walking down the street of Princeton's little, what's the name of the row with all their little eating clubs? Nassau? No. Maybe it's not. The point is, it's the street with all the eating clubs.
Vic01:01:54Palmer. Palmer Court. No. Sorry.
JVL01:01:57I didn't go to Princeton. So Tiger Inn, which is the jock eating club, former quasi-member Michael Goldfarb, who was actually a stealth member, not a real member. You can ask Ramesh. No, Ramesh was cap and gown. I'd bet you anything Ramesh was cap and gown. So anyway, it is after some long night of partying, I have gone and had breakfast at one of the eating clubs. It is a Sunday. Morning, about 11 o'clock, and I am walking down the street back towards campus, and Keith Elias is standing out in the front yard of the Tiger Inn property, and he has two pitchers of beer, one in each hand, pitchers, and a cigar sticking out of his mouth. And he is standing with a coterie of people having a conversation, drinking from his beer, going back and forth, totally buck-ass naked, and I was just like, that guy is so drunk that it's 11 o'clock the next morning, and he's still drunk and still going, and it was amazing. It was one of the most— And then he ended up in the XFL.
Vic01:03:02Then he ended up in the XFL. Okay, that is all the time we're giving to this episode. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us at SonnyBunch, at Victorino Matus. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. Just type in SubBeacon under Podcasts. We are there. Leave a review. Tell your friends. Until next time.
Sonny01:03:21So, you know what?
Vic01:03:33I finally—you probably do this, JVL. You shave your own head, or does your wife help you with the back, or no? You just wing it. I do it all, baby. You use a mirror? Do you do a mirror?
JVL01:03:45No, I'm not going to tell you how I do it. It's amazing, and I'm very good at it. Electric? And I don't know how to do it. I don't have to talk to anybody else while I do it.
Vic01:03:54This is like your—in many ways, the pandemic is your dream come true. Absolutely. But now everybody has to live in your nightmare world. In many ways, it is not. For all of us.
Sonny01:04:06In many ways, this is the worst thing that has ever happened.
Vic01:04:08For the rest of civilization. So, I got a Philips Norelco clipper, and so— Did you do it yourself? Well, no, I haven't done it yet, because I'm going to—I'm just waiting. I want to do it outside. I'm going to do it outside, because I'm not going to clog the drain. You're going to love it. Do you know who actually convinced me to do it outside?
Sonny01:04:26You're going to cut your hair outside and just let the hair blow into the wind?
Vic01:04:31They won't know about it. What else? You could sweep it, I guess, like they do in the store. But what am I going to do? I'm not going to do it in the bathroom.
JVL01:04:36Do you know who convinced me to shave my own head and to give that a try for the first time? Tom Donnelly, our friend.
Vic01:04:44I'm sure it's fine. It's fine.
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