#71. Hamilton, the Founders Ranked, and Sonny’s Hatred of Musicals
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JVL pitched this episode himself after watching the filmed Hamilton on Disney+ with his family, and he comes in swinging: it's easily his favorite musical ever, and he argues the first act may be the best first act in Broadway history. His case rests on structure — the show is sung through like opera rather than breaking into song, the bare stage strips away scene markers so it plays as "an impressionistic oral history," and Lin-Manuel Miranda smartly refuses to inflate Hamilton's real importance, instead nesting his small personal drama inside progressively bigger figures (Jefferson, Washington, King George) with Burr, "the guy who thinks he should be the star," narrating from resentment. Sonny, a self-declared musical hater who once sat stone-faced through The Book of Mormon, delivers the whole review as deadpan bit: why is everyone singing, did a witch curse them, did they have a brain injury, and why did Disney spend $75 million on something shot in one room with minimal costume changes? He concedes he didn't hate it, praises Renée Elise Goldsberry's "Satisfied" as the standout, but calls Miranda the weakest performer on stage by an enormous margin and notes ruefully that the signature theatrical achievement of the last twenty years left him cold. Vic gives it an A, comparing the darkened basement viewing to matinees his mother scored via TKTS, and picks King George's Beatles-pastiche numbers as his favorite — prompting a joke about the one white guy in the show. JVL cites 460,000 Disney+ app downloads over the three-day weekend, up 75% from normal, plus Disney's quiet decision to kill its seven-day free trial in mid-June. They also rank the founders (JVL: Washington, Franklin, Hamilton, Adams, Madison, Jay, and Jefferson dead last), before which the openers cover Sonny's Gordon Gekko quarantine hair and cheap Riesling, Vic's neighborhood water shutoff and his suspicion that mask-wearing has made his eyes mysteriously "regal" to strangers who insist they know him, and the 2001 Sampras-Federer Wimbledon match. JVL closes with the Bloomberg story about a Massachusetts stoner who burglarized the Giants' Super Bowl rings before they reached the players.
From the show notes
#cdata-section -------------- In this latest episode sponsored by Gabi and Keeps, we discuss Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton on Disney Plu...
Full transcript
Guest00:00:00Forever and ever and ever and ever and ever You'll be back like before I will fight the fight and win the war For your love, for your praise And I'll love you 'til my dying days When you're gone, I'll go mad So don't throw away this thing we heard Cause when push comes to shove I will kill your friends and family To remind you of my love
Vic00:00:54Hello and welcome to another edition of the Sub-Beacon, sponsored by Gabby and Keeps. I'm Victor Matus along with Sonny Bunch and Jonathan V. Last Just a reminder, the Sub-Beacon is available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher Look at our podcast and search for Sub-Beacon, you'll easily find us Please subscribe, tell your friends, and leave a review. Gentlemen, how
Sonny00:01:14are we? Sonny? I'm good. How are you? You had mentioned when I got on the line that my hair, it looked like I had a haircut, but it's
Vic00:01:26I see your forehead now. No, it's just actually so long
Sonny00:01:30that I can push it all the way back, Gordon Gekko style. I can just like slick it back, you know, and it's Lack of a better word. You know, once you stop going to the barber that's the first step, then you just stop showering, you know so the hair retains its natural grease, and it's easier to move back and forth, and eventually you just you know, stop getting out of bed, and start drinking your Relax Riesling at 9 in the morning. I was gonna
Vic00:02:02say, what's going on here? Relax! There's a time difference, is it the morning over there? No, I just, I honestly
Sonny00:02:10am like, I'm just hot, cause it's been hot for, you know, like 10 straight weeks. It is hard to
Vic00:02:18drink outside, I will tell you that. Yeah, it's hot, and I just wanted
Sonny00:02:22something, I just wanted something cool and refreshing, and this Riesling is like Kool-Aid I mean, it really is just sweet, and crisp, it's
Vic00:02:30delicious. Crisp, no, it's very, my introduction to wine was when I was in Germany for a summer, and I lived I was 8, no, no, no, I was in college, but I lived with a guest host family on a mountain top in the Mosel, so they lived, you know, I mean, they're right there in the middle of all the wine. Near the ice wine? And so I didn't start, oh yeah, the ice wine is very good and, but that was my exposure, it wasn't to French whites, it wasn't to burgundies, it was to Rieslings, and the different levels of space. Yeah, I'm a total sucker
Sonny00:03:10for a good, not even a good actually, just a cheap Riesling, like an 8 to 10 dollar bottle of Riesling, I can drink a hundred of those. Yeah. That you
Vic00:03:22could find now, the big thing now that's very trendy is Austrian whites, Gruner Veltliners, and it's like, oh, I gotta get a Gruner Veltliner. The funny thing is, when I was in Vienna, that was just like regular wine, you know, and it was like, and then all of a sudden it becomes the thing, and then the price is everything. What's the other, I think
Sonny00:03:38it's German, the Gewürztraminer, Gewürztraminer? Yeah,
Vic00:03:42that's another solid. Yeah, that could be French, it's from the Gamin, the little two has a weird spice thing, I'm not a fan of that, but I like Rieslings and the Austrians. Okay, what's happening down in Texas? Nothing. Anything? Anything
JVL00:03:58going on, Sonny? Hey Sonny, can you turn your game down just a tiny bit? Am I real hot? You're real hot. Sorry, hold on. Yeah. Is this
Sonny00:04:06hotter or is it colder? A little hot a bunch. Hotter? Okay, hold on. How's that?
JVL00:04:10That's hotter. Is that better? Sorry. Yeah, it's been two weeks since I've done
Sonny00:04:14a podcast, the dials have been moved, you know, children have grabbed and turned knobs. Nothing is happening in Texas. Nothing is. I'm just sitting here drinking my Riesling, waiting for death.
Vic00:04:30JVL, you had something to say? You had something to add to Sonny's?
JVL00:04:34No. No? Okay. I have nothing to add to that. Sonny, Sonny. No one's going to top that.
Vic00:04:38How are you, JVL? Good. It was
JVL00:04:42You know, I've been doing some more episodes of my solo podcast, taped a show with April Panuru, taped a show with Megan McArdle, had a lot of fun, and I'm not going to tell anybody here how to get it. I realized that the secret joy, I mean secret, the best joy I get from having my little secret podcast imagine if I told you that you could write a piece but that only people you liked could read it. Like, you know, you could publish a piece, but, no, no, but you could publish a piece, but the people who you didn't like wouldn't be allowed to see it. So it's like sending out a blast email to your friends. Basically, but in podcast form, and it's great. It's deeply satisfying being able to hide it from the rest of the world. I really kind of get off on that. It's like having a speakeasy.
Sonny00:05:34It's like having a speakeasy that only you know about and know the password to.
JVL00:05:38It is. That's right. So right now, my brother-in-law just texted me. The Tennis Channel is replaying the Sampras-Federer match from Wimbledon in 2001. Whoa! And I want to just drop some quick memory lane knowledge on
Vic00:05:56you guys about this. 2001 with Federer? 2001. It is the
JVL00:06:00only meeting ever, lifetime, between them. Between the two, yeah. It's the fourth round of Wimbledon. Going into it, Federer is 19 years old. He has won four straight Wimbledons and is working on his fifth straight. And Federer drops him. Drops him in a four-hour match. He then loses the next match to Tim Henman.
Vic00:06:22How many? Was it a big five-setter with Federer-Sampras?
JVL00:06:26It was four sets. Four sets. And the ultimate winner, this was the year that Gorn Ivanovic won. His only major where he beat Pat Rafter at his peak. And Ivanovic became the only wildcard player to ever win a men's major.
Sonny00:06:44Wait, so that's the only time Samper's played Federer at Wimbledon or ever, ever?
JVL00:06:52I believe ever, ever. I believe it's their only meeting. Maybe they're only meeting at a major. Maybe that's what it is. You know who
Vic00:07:00Gorn Ivanovic's worst enemy was, don't you? The head.
JVL00:07:04Right? You like that?
Vic00:07:08Yes! Thank you, JVL! No! Gorn Ivanovic's worst enemy was Gorn Ivanovic. And he had a real head... He kept on talking about himself with his head in the third person. It was really fascinating.
JVL00:07:22But when he finally broke through and won, because he was a phenom, so Gorn Ivanovic was one of these 19-year-old wunderkinds who was supposed to... And because he was from
Vic00:07:30where? Like Serbia or somewhere? Croatia. Croatia. He was one of the first...
JVL00:07:34one of the first Croatian players and he had like 142 mile an hour serve. It was insane. But he could never get it together. And I thought it was poetic and wonderful that his big career highlight was towards the end of his career when everybody had counted him out. Because that makes his career a success story versus had he won a major at 19 and then never done the same thing again. That's a tragedy. Yeah. So a happy ending all around at the 2001 Wimbledon.
Vic00:08:04That's right. 2001 Wimbledon. Yeah. How are you, Victorino? I'm doing fine. I'm happy. I'm hanging in there yet again. They shut the water off from 8 to 5 today. But that's fine because nobody's home. They shut the water off in your whole neighborhood? Why are they shutting? Yes, they shut the water off. This is the third time. Are you guys running out of water?
Sonny00:08:22But only the first time they actually told us ahead of time. In Northern Virginia?
Vic00:08:26So they needed to replace a valve. Obviously, they didn't bother trying to bypass it. So the first two times there was no announcement. Listen to you talking like you understand how public works happen. You know how it is? I'll tell you how I got this. I picked it up just yesterday from my fellow knight, Steve Genovese, who was a long time retired. Did the lodge have water? I work for the gas company, he says.
JVL00:08:54Get someone from DWP down here!
Vic00:08:58They always did things their own way. They never told anybody. That's how I was able to throw out the lingo, by the way. And anyway, so finally they just said, "Oh, it's going to happen from 8:00 to 5:00." And so there was no water. But that's okay, nobody was home. Anyway, I went into the office, but of course everybody was here. And the first time it happened, there was no announcement and it was on a morning, so all of a sudden people just started walking out of their houses. Like, first of all thinking, number one, is it just me? And then secondly, oh, is this it? It's happening now, right? Why isn't there any news? I have to go to a Morden Joe and beg him to release the water for you guys. So that was that. And other than that, I did want to talk about a little bit of a sensitive subject here, but I'm going to bring it up anyway. Everybody is talking about masks. Everyone's talking about masks. And I have very strong feelings, as you know, about masks. I wear the mask. I obey the law, as you know, and we're doing fine here in Arlington. But I don't like wearing the mask for two reasons. One, I tend to hyperventilate, and when I talk, the mask goes in my mouth. You don't get enough oxygen
JVL00:10:10when you're wearing the mask. Okay. Yes, not getting enough oxygen,
Vic00:10:14and I need to talk, number one. Number two, more importantly, on two different occasions now, wearing the mask, I have walked into a supermarket, and I walked into a McDonald's, and both times, the person behind the register sees me, smiles through their mask, and says, "Hey, good to see you again. Welcome back. It's been a while. I've never met these people before." So, are they just confusing me with somebody because of the mask, or is it because
Guest00:10:46it's only about his eyes? Are you being microglass? Have you been...
Vic00:10:50Yes, something, what JVL, something... Something inscrutable. Mysterious. Regal. There's something regal. There's a mystery. There's something regal about my eyes. And because all they see are my eyes. And I just nod and go, "Oh, hi. How are you?" Now, to be fair, they probably just say
Sonny00:11:06that because you're coming to a fast food establishment, and that's what they say to everyone. "It's good to see you again." No.
Vic00:11:14I don't know. She didn't say it. I saw that lady didn't say it to other people. I was waiting for my order. And then the other time at the supermarket. "I know you from before." I'm like, "Really? Because I don't know you." And maybe if I took off my mask. You said that? Did you take off...
Sonny00:11:30That is not in character. Did you take off your face mask and take off his face mask?
JVL00:11:34You pretended to know them too, right? You took off your face mask and you said, "Do I
Sonny00:11:38look like the person you know?" And then you ripped off their face mask and you spit right in their mouth.
Vic00:11:42Like, "Bah! Bah!" That's right. I did a little mouth-to-mouth on the dude. Okay, so that was... I just wanted to get that off my chest. I don't like where this is going, being mistaken. You gotta start videotaping all these people and the next time
Sonny00:11:58you get microaggressed, you put it on the internet and you say, "This person doesn't know me and they said they know me." Right, JVL? Isn't that what we do with the people?
JVL00:12:06You know, I had a funny mask thing happen to me a couple weeks ago. I was taking a friend who needed to be driven around a little bit and needed to go do some stuff at a bank. And so we had to go into a bank and it was this funny moment. We were sitting in my car about to get out and we pulled our masks on before going into a bank. And I thought, "This is every Western ever made. This is what the black hats do right before they go in to rob the place."
Vic00:12:34Yeah, exactly. It would have even felt more so if they were all black masks.
JVL00:12:38Bandanas. If I had thought ahead of time instead of wearing my normal Superman mask, I would have brought a red cloth
Vic00:12:46bandana or something. And a cowboy hat. I think what I would have done is I would have gone into the bank and then put the black ski mask on and then take one of these little kids and whack the cop. We're here for the bank's money, not yours. Jump up on the counter. Not your money.
JVL00:13:06We don't want you to do anything with your hands, obviously.
Vic00:13:10If you're sick, if you're pregnant, lean against the wall.
JVL00:13:14Hey Sonny, do you like the way I sidestepped that? No, I don't know what you're talking about.
Sonny00:13:18I will say, so I was baiting JVL who had mentioned in his newsletter that he was surprised by the amount of backlash he got from people when he said that we shouldn't destroy people's lives when they have one bad outburst on video. And I have to say, JVL, I found it really refreshing and kind of darling and quaint that you were surprised that people were
JVL00:13:46No, no. I was surprised that people were surprised that my readers were there. Because I have a pretty good sense of who my readers
Sonny00:13:56are and what they think. JVL, all people are bad.
JVL00:14:00This is why I control access to my script podcast. You should have that guy on. Yeah, I'm sure I'd like him too. I'm sure he's actually a prince of a man and we'd be best friends. That's why I was defending him. You personally agree with him. I personally like him and I'm certain that he and I are basically simpatico and everything.
Vic00:14:24What have we got, boys? Other than that, I was going to say, you know what, I've been watching The Criterion Channel? movies. No, no! Let me get back to that in a second because I would like to see that. Just with my son, family, we saw yesterday the great We Were Soldiers movie. Ooh, the Mel Gibson? Yeah, I guess you can't talk about him anymore, but he's in it and he's great and it's very sort of very Catholic, as you know. A couple thoughts on We Were Soldiers. Once and Young. And Young was the book. Now the funny thing is, Barry Pepper is in it and he plays Joe Galloway. Private... what's his name? He plays himself, Galloway. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, in Saving Private Ryan. What's his name?
JVL00:15:12Oh, he's gonna kill us now. I know, the sniper. I'll effort that while you...
Vic00:15:16But I, many, many, many years later, Joe Galloway, I knew, I met Joe Galloway because we were both at Stanford at the same time doing a Hoover thing. He was on the junket circuit too? He was with me on my first one back in 2005 and I said, "Oh, hey, I'm Vic Matus. I'm at the Weekly Standard. Who are you?" Joe Galloway. "Oh, what do you do, Joe?" I had no idea. I didn't read the book at the time. JVL, his name? Private Jackson. Jackson, that's right, Jackson.
JVL00:15:44And... I always get stuck on Mellish. Yeah, Mellish. Private Mellish.
Vic00:15:48That's right. And anyway, so I knew Joe. He was a very nice guy. And you know how you can tell he's a nice guy because you watch the movie and you think to yourself, "Oh, my God. This guy did all of that and was in the middle of it." And I drank. And, of course, that's not... He doesn't tell me once. And we spent a whole week together. Like, he's in one office, I'm in the other. And never brings it up. Because you're colleagues. Because it was me.
JVL00:16:12Because you're the same. Because we're the same. He just knew that you guys were equals.
Vic00:16:16And he didn't need to talk about that. He thought he served with you. Hey, Joe, keep it down. What are you doing? You're really noisy. He thought he served with you. He thought he recognized you. Again, I'm being microaggressed left and right here. Geez. Served with? With. Well, there was a few in the movie. Okay, another thought. Madeline Stowe. I love Madeline Stowe. She's great. What do you love about her? She's just all woman. She's all woman. Which I know isn't really my type, but I'm going to say that. I'm just jumping the gun here.
Sonny00:16:48I'm thinking of Dana Delaney. She's just great.
Vic00:16:52No, no, no. Madeline Stowe is so good. And she's like the hot wife
Sonny00:17:00and mom. We could do a whole episode on that line. The whole package. Right there.
Vic00:17:06Sorry. Let's just keep on moving around. But you know what the funny thing is? Chris Klein. He was supposed to be the... From American Pie. Yeah. And Mel Gibson. And he was in Election, I think. And he is sort of with Mel Gibson. He treats him like his son and the whole thing. And whatever happened not to him in the movie. I know it happened to him in the movie. But he was supposed to be like...
JVL00:17:34Well, Chris Pine happened and then people started confusing the two of them. Oh no! Is that what happened? And somebody said, "I want to hire Chris Klein." And they thought it meant Chris Pine. That's a great question, though. I don't know.
Vic00:17:44That's just terrible.
JVL00:17:48Well, all of those American Pie people disappeared. Every last one of them. Jason Biggs went away. Well, he was in Orange is the New Black.
Sonny00:17:56And he had that here as a sitcom for a while. Tara Reid. Tara Reid had the Sharknado thing. But she was like a famous burnout. She was like the most famous burnout of that set. What's his name? Stifler. Right.
JVL00:18:06Who's the older girl? Mina Suvari.
Sonny00:18:10Mina Suvari? She disappeared. Sean William Scott had the best career of those guys, I would say. Remember he was in The Rundown with The Rock? He was in Southland Tales. Yeah, but after that he went to movie jail. I think he had a drug problem. He went to movie jail. He famously had a pretty bad drug problem. Who could say? If I remember correctly. But he has worked. He was in the Kevin Smith movie Goon, for instance. With Liev Schreiber, I believe.
Vic00:18:36The funny thing is the breakout star in We Were Soldiers Not the breakout star, but the one who became most famous, I think, of that of the other, you know, the co-star. Not counting Sam Elliott, who by the way is amazing. Jim Caviezel? No, Jon Hamm. Oh, Jon Hamm is in that. It's funny. Very small role, but he's in there. He's in the fight. You know, he has a few lines. He punches Jon Hamm. Yeah, that's right. Thank you. Alright. Well, before we go to the main part, and I want to talk about I have a lot of thoughts on the main part. Just a quick word from one of our sponsors. We're all looking for ways to save money, especially now. When's the last time you looked at how much you're spending every month on car insurance, on homeowner's insurance? Now's the time to check out Gabby and see about getting a lower rate for the exact same coverage you already have. Gabby takes the pain out of shopping for insurance by giving you an apples-to-apples comparison of your current coverage with 40 of the top insurance providers like Progressive, Nationwide, and Travelers. Just like your current insurance account. Man, I should stop with the coke here. Just link your current insurance account and in about two minutes you'll be able to see quotes for the exact same coverage you currently have. Gabby customers save $825 per year on average. If they can't find you savings, they'll let you know so you can relax knowing you have the best rate out there and they'll never sell your info so no annoying spam or robocalls. It's totally free to check your rate and there's no obligation. Take two minutes right now to see how much you can save on your car and homeowner's insurance. Go to Gabby.com/subbeacon that's G-A-B-I dot com slash subbeacon Gabby dot com slash subbeacon. Okay. I think it was JVL's idea.
JVL00:20:32My idea. Totally. This is on me. If this doesn't work, if this is a flaming disaster, you guys can blame it
Vic00:20:40on me. I have a couple questions, JVL. And then we'll do that
Sonny00:20:44Alexandria Daddario movie next week. Well that doesn't come out until like September I don't think.
Vic00:20:48It came out already in JVL's mind so to speak. Out. Out. Sounds weird if you don't say out. Yes, out. Did you want to... Hamilton. Okay, so we're talking about Hamilton. That's what we're talking about. Everyone's talking about it. It's all the excitement. It's rather an interesting time for this kind of a movie/musical to come out in the current zeitgeist, if you will. But the question, JVL, is did you always say, were you the one thinking I want to do this or was your lovely wife the one who said let's watch it, you watched it, and you're like, oh my gosh, this is great, I want to see it.
JVL00:21:28We should talk about it. So I did not even realize that this was a thing Disney+ was doing. And like most of America, I found out somehow, my wife heard somewhere or something on Twitter who said, oh, Hamilton's on Disney+ starting this weekend. And so we watched it with the kids and I after watching it, I thought, we have to do a show on this. After you had seen it then, okay.
Vic00:21:56So it wasn't like beforehand you were thinking about it. Because you're not a musical guy, although
JVL00:22:00you have performed in musicals. I have been in musicals. I have spent a good deal of my life in musical theater. I hate it though. I don't like musicals.
Vic00:22:08I don't like musical theater. So why? Then why? Why which? Why would you perform or be in
JVL00:22:16I was curious. I was young. I didn't quite know yet that I hated it. That's a good answer. My hatred was a learned hatred, not an instinctual hatred.
Vic00:22:28Does that make sense? Yes. You just didn't like the...
JVL00:22:32Okay. All right. I didn't like the taste of it. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
Vic00:22:36Of course. Well, depends on the show. And Sonny, I know you are not at all...
JVL00:22:44Trivia question. JVL trivia. If you really loved me, Vic, you would know
Vic00:22:48which two shows I starred in. Wizard of Oz and You Were the Scarecrow.
JVL00:22:52Well, I mean, that doesn't really count because that was like sixth grade. But in high school, my two high school shows. You're right about Wizard of Oz and the Scarecrow.
Vic00:23:00But my two high school shows. No, I don't know that one. The one that always stuck in my mind was Wizard of Oz.
JVL00:23:04In high school, I starred in Hello, Dolly! as Horace Vandergelder. I did not know this is the first time I'm hearing this. And then Carnival. Which everybody confuses with Carousel because Carousel is the famous one.
Vic00:23:20I've seen Carousel. Carousel is the famous one.
JVL00:23:24Carnival is the janky, stupid one. And I don't even remember the name of my character. Were you a carny? I was a puppeteer. I was a tortured puppeteer
Vic00:23:36who was in love with the ingenue in the show. Sometimes this is what you have to do. You have to go through this in order to make it to the big time. They've all done this. They go through some of these various insane sort of productions, things they don't want, but it's work. It's work. Until they make it into the big time, right? Yeah, yeah.
JVL00:23:56It was just high school theater that I was doing. Honestly, I should have spent my time playing basketball. I can't believe I left basketball to do musical theater. Because that's how the musical theater for us was essentially the winter sports season. And so I did a spring sport, I did a fall sport, and I had done a winter sport. And then I was like, "Hey, I don't know. Maybe I'll try being in a show." What was your
Sonny00:24:20fall sport? What was your spring sport? Cross country.
JVL00:24:24It was spring track and tennis. I sort of swapped them back and forth. I did tennis freshman and senior year and spring track sophomore and junior year.
Vic00:24:40I told you, Kate loved doing theater in high school, and she was in a couple productions with Gretchen Maul, the actress Gretchen Maul. They did Mulholland Drive.
Sonny00:24:56Kate didn't catch Harvey's eye?
Vic00:25:00I can say that because she has no idea what I'm talking about.
Guest00:25:04I said Kate didn't catch Harvey's eye.
Vic00:25:08You know, but she's told some weird stories about like, you know, guys will come up, oh, you know, here's my card, and, you know, I have a talent
JVL00:25:16agency, she should come into the city. It's funny, I had the same experiences.
Vic00:25:20Same guy! Different guys. Except for you said yes! Different guys. Except for you said yes, I said oh, you know. Next thing you know, you're right in the basement with the wood side, the plywood on the wall. That was you, I knew it! Okay, so, back to Hamilton. Looks like you work out a lot, are you proud of your body? Back to Hamilton. Hamilton. Okay, so, Sonny. I did, I watched it. Yes, you said you were gonna see it with your wife, okay, so we all saw it, that's great.
JVL00:25:52Did anybody else see it? No. Did Dr. Matus see it?
Vic00:25:56You know, I told them to see it, but I don't know if, I don't know, I don't know if, I mean, like, we've seen as a fan, well, really, my mother would take us as kids into the city to see. TKTS? TKTS! Right there on Times Square! So, you don't know what you're seeing until you get there. You don't know what you're seeing until you get there.
JVL00:26:16That's exactly, that's how, I'm surprised that the Doctors family had to do TKTS.
Vic00:26:20Well, my aunt, you know, she lives in the city, and she, you know, she's very city-wise, city-wise, she's like, don't spend that. Nobody in New York pays full price for Broadway tickets. And that's how I ended up in nosebleed seats seeing Starlight Express. You know what I mean? Or the roller skates, it was like a roller disco one. Oh, I know that one. Yeah, okay, well, there you go. Me and my girl. Okay, there was one with Sandy Duncan. Anyway, let's not, let's not go there. How about a big one? Hamilton!
Sonny00:26:48Somebody. Hamilton! It's, it's, it's the story of Alexander Hamilton. The framing device of which is Aaron Bird. The A-L-E-S-A-N. Aaron Bird, who's played by Leslie Odom Jr. here, who, you know, is kind of telling this story through his lens, which is that he keeps just missing out on all of these opportunities to really influence the shape of the country and the nation. And he loses them out to this Alexander Hamilton character, who is, as we learn from this production, he's a, he's an orphan son of a, he's a bastard, I guess. I don't know. He's an immigrant. We know that. He's an immigrant. He comes to the United States and he makes his way through school and through the revolution and he marries Rich. He marries Skylar's sister. And, you know, he's one of the founders. He's an important one. He's very much, very involved with the Federalist Papers and he's writing all these papers and he just writes and writes. He's basically the original blogger. That was one of my big takeaways from this movie, is that he just, he has to get the words out of him. He needs everyone to know what he thinks about everything. He's a blogger, through and through. And that obviously endeared him to me. I was like, yes, I recognize this. I recognize this. You know, it's an interesting, it's an interesting movie. You know, you've got characters playing, you've got people playing multiple characters. For instance, David Diggs plays Marquis de Lafayette and Thomas Jefferson. Probably my favorite dual performance in the movie. He's really over the top with it and I like it. I like it a lot. You have a, I cannot pronounce this guy's name, so please do not ask me to, but the same guy plays Hercules Mulligan and James Madison. He's fantastic. Yes. He's fantastic in this. You know, and it's, there's a lot of energy to the production. Now, I had some questions about the choices made in this movie and I'm hoping you guys can walk me through them. For some reason, everybody is singing the whole time and it's not explained in the movie. Was, like, did a witch put a curse on everyone? They could only speak in verse? I don't, why was everyone singing in this movie? Did they have a brain injury? Was it, I don't understand.
JVL00:29:24You know, it's funny you say this because one of my favorite shows of the late 90s was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And they did a musical episode. And the way it was rationalized is that a demon, because Buffy was a show about demons, a demon comes up from whatever demon dimension is and he actually puts a curse on all the people so that they can only sing. They can't speak. This movie is really missing a scene like that to explain
Sonny00:29:52exactly what is happening on the screen. Because it's very confusing. You know, you expect something like The Patriot.
JVL00:30:00Vic, are you losing Sonny here? Yeah, I feel like I'm losing Sonny
Vic00:30:04a little bit. I'm still here. I'm losing you totally, Sonny. Am I still here? It's just me. You're a little glitchy. You're a little glitchy. Your network
Sonny00:30:12is dying. Hold on. Let's give it one sec here. Oof. I'm still recording, so I'm just going to keep going. Second question that I had. Maybe you guys, again, can help me out on this. Disney paid $75 million for this production of the life of Alexander Hamilton. But it was shot entirely in one room, as best as I could tell. It was all in one area, and they just kept having people come out, and they were pretending it was something else. Again, I didn't quite understand. They spent so much money on this, and yet, it's all just being shot in this one room, where there are minimal costume changes. Again, I don't understand the movie, what is happening in the movie. Why am I watching these people in the same space over and over again? Did you hear the canned laughter, too? What sort of choice was that by Disney? That was a throwback to the sitcoms of the 70s and 80s and 90s. I liked that, actually. I liked that. That was a good choice. When the guy from Mindhunter showed up as King George, I was like, I get this. Because he's the wicked King George, they're trying to show how malevolent he is. But, you know, everything else, it was a little bit strange to me. I didn't quite understand. I couldn't quite figure it out. So, anyway, that's my big takeaway from Hamilton.
Vic00:31:44As Sonny Bunch would say, SMDH.
Sonny00:31:48No, I hate musicals. And I found this tolerable. Which means it's probably one of the greatest musicals of all time. I wrote a whole piece about this for the Free Beacon once. As a birthday present, my lovely wife bought tickets to see the Book of Mormon. And I went to see the Book of Mormon and I figured it's a musical by the South Park guys. They're very funny. I like everything they do. I'm sure this will be a lot of fun. And I went and I sat there stone-faced the whole time through it. It did nothing for me. And this was much the... So even when people are laughing, you're not laughing. No, it does nothing for me. I will say, again, I didn't hate this. I didn't come out of it angry that I had watched it. Some of the numbers are pretty amusing. And I will say that the one where the one Schuyler sister sings about how she has missed out on her chance with Alexander Hamilton. I thought that was very well done and very well performed and very well staged. I was like, okay, this is pretty good. But I mean, I couldn't imagine putting this on in my car and listening to it all the time. This schoolhouse raps version of American history. You know, at this very moment, Jon Podhoretz is smashing his iPhone. It's now shattered into a million pieces. It's not my thing at all. It's not my thing at all. And this is why I argued against doing the episode. And I'm glad we did it because, again, it's fine. I don't have any problems with this particular production. But it does kind of reinforce the fact that the signature musical theater achievement of the last 20 years left me totally cold.
JVL00:33:48I have a question for you, Sonny. Do you think this would have worked as a Les Mis-style movie production rather than a taped theatrical version?
Sonny00:34:08You mean like the Russell Crowe/Anne Hathaway movie? Maybe. I don't know. I have not liked any of the filmed productions of Les Mis either.
JVL00:34:20The reason I ask is because I come out of this thinking that what they have done here should bury the idea of ever doing one of those style
Sonny00:34:32musical productions ever again. It depends on what you are trying to get out of it. So my understanding is that Disney paid $75 million for this as a backdoor to get the movie rights. More or less. That they have acquired not only this filmed theatrical production of it, but also that they now own the rights to remake it as a movie. And frankly, I think that that's better because I do think that that is how people expect to watch movies. I think people watch a filmed play and no matter how good it is they're still like, "I'm watching a film play."
JVL00:35:08This was going to be released theatrically pre-COVID. And had this been released theatrically, it would have made all of the money that there is in the world.
Sonny00:35:20Yes. Did you see
JVL00:35:24the numbers on it for streaming? Did Disney release numbers on it for streaming? Disney did not. But there are some backdoor ways of getting into this, which is they looked at the number of downloads of the Disney Plus app. And they did 460,000 downloads over the three-day weekend, which is 75% more than a normal weekend for them. And they strategically, in mid-June, killed their seven-day free trial very quietly so that anybody who was logging in to get Hamilton was going to be an actual paying customer. So I think that's pretty good. And that's just in the U.S. So they added another 350,000 subscribers worldwide. I think that makes it a pretty big win for them. And I get the sense that this is something that a lot of people watched. And this isn't like Bird Box or something, where people see the first three minutes and then walk away. Every time I log in to the Disney+ app, what I am shocked by is the number of things that I say to myself, "Yes, I would like to actually sit down and watch that." And there aren't 500 of them. There's like 25 of them. And I don't think that that is true on Netflix. On Netflix, there are 500 things that, if I was super bored and sitting on an airplane, I might watch one of.
Sonny00:37:00I don't think it's true of Netflix. I do actually think it's true of HBO Max. Because I'm an HBO subscriber, I found out... The HBO Max rollout has been so terrible on every level. Literally... The worst thing ever. To the point where, just for starters, if you're a Roku user, you can't actually get the app. And that's like 80% of the streaming market, apparently, is Roku. But I have an Apple TV, so I was able to actually download it and watch it. And HBO Max just has tons of stuff that I actually want to watch. Like tons of Warner Bros. movies, the TCM channel, the Adult Swim channel, cartoons. Those are cartoons, not, you know... But also just the HBO stuff and everything else. I mean, every time I turn on HBO Max, there's something I want to watch. The other day, I just put in Clint Eastwood, because I had wanted to watch a Clint Eastwood movie. And it had like 20 Clint Eastwood movies. I was like, okay, this is actually a useful service to me in a way that Netflix kind of isn't. That Amazon is, but a lot of that stuff would have cost extra. I think that Disney Plus and HBO Max are the two best services. And it's a shame that Warner Brothers and AT&T have done such a terrible, terrible job with the rollout of HBO Max, because it is actually a pretty solid service.
JVL00:38:24Victorino, what did you think?
Vic00:38:28Did you love it? I gave it an A. I really liked it. Okay, duration is hard, but you know that's what they have the intermission for. It was two hours and 40 minutes. And I looked and I go, that can't possibly be two hours and 40 minutes. But of course, when you're in a theater, you also... You've paid $900 for your seats. Yes, that's exactly right. See, I paid that amount of money for it, so I want it to be long, right? And so, I mean, that was part of it. It was weird. I mean, the whole family watched it. We turned off the lights in the basement, because it's close to where the Wi-Fi is. There's better Wi-Fi in the basement than in the other room, because there's a brick wall separating the TV. But in any event, so it actually kind of felt like you were watching it, like, you know, if you were dark enough that you could almost feel like you're in a theater, and I loved... I'm gonna get carried away here by talking about it. Get carried away. Give over to your feelings. I love going to certain theaters, you know, watching shows on Broadway, or even off-Broadway, for that matter. It's just a whole experience, you know? I mean, and Sonny talks about, you know, obviously, it's all being done on the stage, but when you're there, it's really something, and it's amazing, and I used to... This is very weird. I'm just gonna go off, digress here a little bit. When I was a kid, you know, you'd go and see any sort of musical, and it's dark except for the stage, and every now and then, you know, I'd look around, and you'd just look at the audience, and then you'd look out, and then you'd think that outside these walls is a whole other thing going on. People are getting stabbed. And of course, it's City of Daylight, because we never saw... Druggies, junkies are passing out and dying on the street. Yeah, that stuff, too. Joe Chill is hanging out in the alley. In my mind, it's always... It's always fonder memories I have of New York, but, you know, and it was always broad. The idea was that it was, you know, it was crazy to think it was in broad daylight out there, because of course... Matinee. Yes. You would never see a movie at a show at night. That would be insane for the price. You always had to see a matinee. And most of the time, for whatever reason, you kept on getting like the understudies. That was the worst, you know, because you'd be like... Always. Always. Like, why am I always getting the understudies? But, in any event, I liked the experience in general, and watching "Hamilton" kind of reminded me of what that was like, and so, I mean, I thought it was great. It did really well on my quadrants. I think you got duels, you know. You got the ladies. You got that, oh, the blackmail with the, or the extortion. You know, the Reynolds letter. I mean, that stuff was great, and you learned a lot. And I didn't know, I didn't know Alexander Hamilton became Secretary of the Treasury, you know? And so, I'll tell you what I really, the seed stealer for me was King George. I always looked forward to it. So, they have different
JVL00:41:24styles. Did you tell your daughter who he was?
Vic00:41:28Oh yeah, because I looked it up later that he was
JVL00:41:32the voice of Kristoff. That's Kristoff. Was her mind blown?
Sonny00:41:36Yeah, she's like, "Oh, that's crazy." But of course she's not. It's much funnier if you only know one from Mindhunter, trust me.
Vic00:41:44I'll check that out. He's really good at this. And the other thing is, it is an homage to the Beatles. And Lin-Manuel Miranda said he was thinking about this and even though it made no sense to bring King George into it, because obviously he never met Hamilton, but sort of a counterpoint, number one. And number two, in terms of musical style, because you have rap, you have R&B, and you have hip-hop, and he thought British Invasion music. And so as a result, it's a very Beatles-esque, Paul McCartney-esque kind of tune. There are little Beatles moments in it that you'll pick up on the song, and it's just fantastic. And the lyrics are great, and you kind of find him sympathetic. You know? "You're gonna miss me. It's so much harder to lead. Trust me. Now what do you do?" All these different things. Fantastic. Best character. Best character is definitely Jefferson. I like him across the board. Oh! That's the interesting thing. He really does not come off as a great guy in Hamilton. And in some ways, you're like, "I kind of like Burr a little bit more than Jefferson." It's funny. But yeah,
JVL00:42:56I love Jefferson. This revisionist history is no good. I don't appreciate
Vic00:43:00it. Yeah, and it's like the Jefferson Madison thing. And of course, but Hamilton and George Washington come out very much, you know, have favorable portraits of them.
JVL00:43:16Very controversial take on George Washington in this show. Very controversial take now.
Vic00:43:20It's funny. They keep on picking different portrayals of Washington I've seen are all these giant, you know, hulking figures. You have this fella.
JVL00:43:32That's because Washington was huge for his time. Yes, exactly. And like in the John
Vic00:43:36Adams series. It's like a thing of him. Do you remember who played him in the John Adams series? Hack! David Morse.
JVL00:43:40Oh gosh, I'm trying to remember. What? Searing Hands? Yes, very good.
Vic00:43:44Oh, David Morse, yes. He was a big guy. So in any event, that's my thought JVL. I really enjoyed it. I've seen a lot of musicals so I was a little bit skeptical and I was a little bit, you know, I don't know. It's always like, you know.
JVL00:44:00It's oversold, right? You think to yourself, oh come on. That's right. Like everybody only loves this because it's like the Black Hamilton musical and it's all virtual signaling and like Obama loved it, which is why we love it, right? It started off early on. It can't possibly be this good. Right.
Vic00:44:16And early on you heard, well it was interesting. Do you remember a long time ago when it first came out, it was like whispers. Whispers on the right. You know what? This is actually really good. Have you seen Hamilton? It's really good. I mean, he read the Ron Chernow book, you know, and then Chernow worked with him on this, you know, on the production. So, I mean, it was going to be good. And obviously very sympathetic to Hamilton and very touching. But then everybody jumped on that bandwagon. You're exactly right JVL. So you're like eh, really? Wow. The first review I read of it
JVL00:44:48was actually a national review. And I forget whether it was Terry Teachout or Kyle Smith who reviewed it. But whoever it was, they loved it. Yeah. Which was always my hedge of like, okay, so it's not just. I loved the crap out of it. Go for it JVL. I don't know about you guys. I have not seen like every musical. I've seen a bunch. I don't like them typically. You're a self-hating
Vic00:45:16musical guy. Of course I am.
JVL00:45:20Easily my favorite musical ever. And I would say, so I've purposely not talked with Jon about this because I'm hoping to have a long exchange with him. But I think the first act might be the best first act of any musical in the history of Broadway. The first act is just amazing. And I love everything about it. So Sonny, I, like you, hate the contrivance of the idea of a musical. I hate it. And I felt as though Hamilton really goes as far as it is possible to go to sort of put the contrivance behind you. Partly because there are the lack of sets, because we have really a lack of even scene markers. What you're getting is much more like an impressionistic oral history that's being sung. And the fact that they don't break into song, because the whole thing is sung, much more like opera, takes away the jarringness of why are these people having a normal conversation and now they're singing. And the other part about it that feels organic is that Lin-Manuel Miranda's love for the character is palpable in just about every beat. And having the auteur playing the lead role in a live production makes a difference. You can really feel that.
Sonny00:46:52It adds verisimilitude to it. Lin-Manuel Miranda's performance is the weakest aspect of the thing by an enormous margin. He is not as good a performer as Daveed Diggs. He's not as good as the guy who plays Aaron Burr. He's not as good as anybody else that's on the stage. That actually I think is a big negative.
JVL00:47:20Again, I agree that he just isn't as talented a performer as they are, but all of the passion and the understanding of it comes out and makes him just fantastic. But there are a bunch of choices in it that I really, really liked narratively. And the biggest one is the idea of like, what do you do with Hamilton qua Hamilton? Because he isn't actually the star. If the story is the story of the American Revolution, everybody has their favorite founding father. And we're going to do a ranking on founding fathers later. And Hamilton is always the smart kid's choice. But he's very much a supporting player in the founding. And so if you're doing a show about him, do you exaggerate his role to make him the star? Lin-Manuel Miranda decides not to do that. And so he situates Hamilton as the guy who's going through his own dramas in the midst of a bunch of much bigger stories. And so you have Jefferson and Washington who each come on stage as if this is their show. Right? You know, as if this is just a scene in the show about them. Because they are much, much bigger figures. And Hamilton is, truth be told, a supporting player compared to them. And then even King George himself is a bigger figure than all these people. And so you wind up with this, like, nesting doll structure with larger dramas subsuming the smaller dramas, but with the small drama of Hamilton being the center of the piece. And so, you know, the nesting doll would have Hamilton and then Jefferson and then Washington and then George. And the cherry on top of all of this is that the fifth, the real fifth lead character is Burr, who is the guy who thinks that he should be the star of it, when he himself is a nobody.
Sonny00:49:20He actually is the star of the show. The whole thing is framed around his perspective. It's framed around his resentments of Alexander Hamilton. He is the narrator. He is the one
JVL00:49:32who--I mean, he's literally-- Yes, no, he's literally the narrator. This is the genius of--the genius of the way the narrative structure is built here is really, really something. And I just love the crap out of it. I find it interesting, you know, just to sort of step back and think about it meta in a way. All of the pushback that exists for Hamilton, so far as I can tell, actually came from the left.
Sonny00:50:00Which is interesting. There are two strains of pushback, right? There's the pushback on the left that is like, this is like the neoliberal, you know, we're going to cover up the actual problems with capitalism and democracy by putting a coat of paint, so to speak, on it, right? By using actors of color to tell the stories of these people, blah, blah, blah. And interestingly, you have a mirror, an almost a mirror version of that argument on the right, where like the biggest resentment of this production is that it is a, you know, a bunch of African-American and Puerto Rican actors playing the...
JVL00:50:36Okay, well, except that the people on the left who are bothered by it tend to be academics, and the people on the right who are bothered by it tend to be like Mike Cernovich. I mean, whoever. Right. Yeah, I mean, one would assume. One assumes. Yeah, I mean, just actual racists. So I'm gonna say, I don't know about you guys, but I do not like stunt casting. I am bothered and annoyed by stunt casting. But in the specific case of Hamilton, I think it's incredibly effective to do something to the story, which is to universalize the ideas of the founder. Yeah, and that's the whole point. And I find that to be an incredibly powerful and ultimately quite patriotic way to
Sonny00:51:16take it on. I just love the crap out of it. I do think there's an argument for that. Again, my... Anybody can make it here in America, even if you're from St. Louis. Again, my issues with the play is that it is a musical. I mean, that is what it comes down to for me. But yeah, I'm ambivalent as to the casting.
JVL00:51:44You guys, when you were goofing on me for the story of what it's like to make it on Broadway, the backstories of the two lead actresses in this, I think, are very instructive. On the one hand, you have Phillipa Soo, who plays Eliza Schuyler, and she is a Juilliard girl. The kids who come out of Juilliard, it's like they've been touched by God. You're given an all-access pass. The very first thing she did coming out of undergrad was get a lead, and she's super young in this. And then you had the girl who plays Angelica Schuyler. Her name's Renee
Sonny00:52:24Goldsberry. Very good. Again, my favorite performance in the...
JVL00:52:28She is astonishing. And she has been humping it out in show business for like 20 years. She started out doing backup singing for Vonda Shepherd in the Ally McBeal series. She did a stint on soap operas. Again, I think she steals every scene she's in. She is so obviously a star. She is one of the great voices I've ever heard. You think this woman had to go this long in life without getting to work her way into a place where people could see exactly how good she is. And that's how weird and cruel all of theater world is. And in a weird way, even more so than movies. Like in movies you can, you know, if you really work hard, you can write your own parts. You can shoot small indie theater. There's just not as much. Owning a theater to put on a production that can only be seen live by people is really, really hard. It's not like the theatrical version of making a mixtape where you shoot a small
Sonny00:53:40Broadway play. Right.
JVL00:53:44Right. And get it seen by anybody.
Vic00:53:48Well, you know, when it comes to musicals, I have the same approach as you know with movies, which is I like most of them. So I will tell you the ones I do not like. And this probably is a disappointment to some people who are into musicals. Cats. I just do not like cats at all. Perfect.
Sonny00:54:08But I think nobody likes cats. I know, I'm a ferocious critic. Nobody will admit to liking cats. Clearly people like cats because they keep on going to see cats. Cats is the creed. Everybody goes to the Winter Garden Theatre. Or the, oh what's the Canadian idiots? Of like, no.
JVL00:54:28The Bare Naked Ladies? I don't even know.
Sonny00:54:32Oh, yes, gosh, who were there? Nickelback. Cats is the creed or the Nickelback of, you know, of musicals. Like, nobody will admit to liking it, but it sells out everything, right? Yeah, but it sells
Vic00:54:44out, okay? And then the other one was, you know, Phantom did not do it for me. And I think I had to see it once. I just, I don't want to see it. That was, you know, and I know Peter Lockyer, who's a friend of ours, a good friend of Kate's from high school, and he was the Phantom of the opera for many years. And he was in Les Mis, West End, and Broadway. And he's great. He was in Miss Saigon. He did, now he acting, he's a teacher for acting. Vic, what are your favorite
JVL00:55:12shows? You don't have to rank them if you don't want to,
Vic00:55:16although I'd like it. Watching Hamilton was great, but having, on Broadway, you know, the classics are great. Guys and Dolls. And I saw guys, South Pacific? No, you know, I didn't see South Pacific. Guys, I saw Guys and Dolls with Jamie Farr from MASH. And he plays Nathan Detroit. And he was great. He played that role perfectly. I saw The Producers. Lebanese. Yeah, he's Lebanese. He played the Sheik in Cannonball Run. And I saw The Producers. And again, that one was not with Matthew Broderick and Nathan Lane. But you know what? It was still funny. It was still funny. I have a list somewhere here. I lost it of all the various musicals I've seen. But I saw Annie on Broadway. But I don't think I saw the production with Sarah Jessica Parker. Because she was Annie once. Well, that must have been an awkward
Sonny00:56:16Annie after Sex and the City.
Vic00:56:20I'll tell you what's crazy. I saw it's too late now. There's no going back now. I saw The Boy from Oz in which Hugh Jackman plays Peter Allen, the writer and composer and producer who married Liza Minnelli and died of AIDS. Peter Allen. Great music. Hugh Jackman played him. Hugh Jackman played her. Careful. A quick word before we get to our rankings. Did you know two out of three guys will experience some form of male pattern baldness by the time they're 35? You know who I'm talking to. The best way to prevent hair loss is to do something about it while you still have hair left. Keeps offers generic versions of the only two FDA approved hair loss products out there. You may have tried them before but probably never for this price. Find out why Keeps has more five star reviews than any of its competitors and nearly 100,000 men trust Keeps for their hair loss prevention medication. Keeps treatments start at just $10 a month plus for a limited time you can get the first month for free. If you're ready to take action to prevent hair loss, go to Keeps.com/subbeacon to receive your first month of treatment for free. That's K-E-E-P-S dot com slash subbeacon. Subtitles by the Amara.org community
JVL00:57:50JVL, you had rankings. I want to rank the founding fathers.
Vic00:57:54You go first. You go first. How can I just do this off the top of my head? You have to give us some sort of...
Sonny00:58:02I don't know. Are you an American?
JVL00:58:06Alright, go ahead. You go first. Number one. George Washington. Here's the thing about Washington. People who know nothing about American
Sonny00:58:14history just say Washington's the best. That's not how this works. No. It should be doing it the other way around.
JVL00:58:22And then people learn a little bit and they're like, oh, well, it's Madison or oh, it's Adams. But once you know everything about it, you go back to saying Washington's the best. Washington. Number one of all the founding fathers. No one denies this. Number two, Ben Franklin. Underappreciated. Number three, Alexander Hamilton. Number four, John Adams. Number five, James Madison. Number six, John Jay. Number seven, Thomas Jefferson. Last. The worst. Far and away the worst of all the founding fathers. There are only seven founding fathers. I'm limiting it. Those are the key figures. I'm sorry. You think Hancock deserves
Vic00:59:02to get on the list? George Mason. Okay. You know, if we had Jay Cost on the show, it would be number one, James Madison. Number two, James Madison. Number three, James Madison. Jay would not come on the show. Yeah, I know. Jay does not like me very much. I just wanted to throw that out there. George Washington had a terrible end of his life. Did you know that? How he died? It was all gastrointestinal. Okay. It was. It was awful. And it could have been treated, you know, like
Sonny00:59:34today. Yeah, he died a long time ago before they had
Vic00:59:38real medicine. All sorts of enemas. Enemas. Stuff that I try to do myself and it doesn't work. Homeopathic cures that don't work. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. All right, Vic. The molasses enema. Okay. Oh, what? No, I don't have any. You're not doing your ranking? You don't have a ranking of shows? No, no, no. I don't have any. I don't have. I don't dispute. I won't dispute your ranking. I think that's fine. Although I did go. Look, I went to Monticello and that I was really number three is. Yeah. You know, the sun numbers. The sun never caught. The sun never caught Jefferson in bed. S-U-N. And he was a busy man and he loved his wine. My favorite. He gets extra points for that. My favorite thing about Thomas Jefferson is
Sonny01:00:22not that he founded the University of Virginia, the greatest of the schools. Mr. Jefferson's University. And it's not that he loved his wine and planted vineyards all throughout Virginia, varying success and quality. It's that when he went broke, he had to sell all of his books. And then he loved books so much that he went broke again, buying them all back. It's like a thing that you learn in the Monticello tour. At one point, he needed to get books, which were very expensive back in the 1700s. He sold them to raise money. And then he was like, "No, I have to have all these books again." And he bought them all again. So anyway, number three is John Adams. Number two is Jefferson. Number one is Washington.
Vic01:01:10Let us not forget about John Adams. And people think that, "Oh, because Jefferson was wine, and Adams was much more abstemious." That is not true at all. John Adams loved wine. In fact, he went on a trip to Sonoma or Napa with his buddy before he got married, and they went to a bunch of wine
JVL01:01:26tastings. And he would not eat Merlot. He said, "I won't
Vic01:01:30drink Merlot!" And met some interesting ladies.
JVL01:01:34Let's get out of here. I do have one serious question for each of you.
Sonny01:01:38What was your favorite number in the show? It's the one with the Schuyler sister singing about how she actually—I don't know the name of any of the songs—but the one where she's singing about how she wishes that she had been the one to, you know,
Vic01:01:50get married to Alexander Hamilton. Gotcha. I will say "You'll Be Back" and the subsequent numbers by King George III. I love the Beatles numbers. Oh, the one white guy in the whole show.
JVL01:02:02Guilty as charged. You thought his stuff was best. Interesting.
Vic01:02:06Just interesting. And you, JVL?
JVL01:02:10I really liked the "history has its eyes on you" number where Washington is talking to Hamilton as he is about to assume command.
Vic01:02:22I dug that a lot. Alright, taking my shot. Corrections, shout-outs? Nothing. We're good. Oh, you know, Robert Little, our friend Robert Little, sent me a bottle of Lambanog, which is a sort of fermented coconut liqueur. Not liqueur. It's a spirit, really. It's like the Filipino version of Everclear. And unfortunately, it's in my office, so Robert, next time I go back in, I will bring it back with me. It's in my bar. But thank you very much. It's thoughtful. That is all the time we're giving to this episode. Questions, comments, complaints, compliments, tweet us @SonnyBunch, @VictorinoMatus. Again, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher. Just type in Sub-Beacon under podcasts. We're there. Leave a review. Tell your friends. Until next time. What do you got?
JVL01:03:26Did you guys read the Bloomberg piece about the Massachusetts weed head who stole the New York Giants Super Bowl
Sonny01:03:34rings? No. It's amazing.
JVL01:03:38What happened? So this guy owns a moving company, but on the weekends he's a thief. A cat burglar. And he's a big Pats fan. And when he watches the 16-0 season be destroyed in the Super Bowl by the David Tyree catch, he sits there while he's smoking weed with his 19-year-old girlfriend and is like, "Fuck those guys. They don't deserve to have them rings." And he then goes to the place in Massachusetts where Super Bowl rings get made and he breaks in and steals them all before they are distributed to the players. It is like heat if De Niro's character was played by Tommy from Quincy. It's amazing.
Sonny01:04:34You have to read it. Alright, I'm sure it's fine.
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